Author Topic: So are we ever going to get a 2nd tank? (Read 773 times)

Urchin · « **on:** May 21, 2006, 12:06:24 AM »

You know, to go with the 1337 jeep?

OOZ662 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 21, 2006, 12:51:45 AM »

We have three tanks...

SFCHONDO · « **Reply #2 on:** May 21, 2006, 12:57:33 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by OOZ662
We have three tanks...

Welcome to Earth OOZ662

I don't think your tracking his point...

Urchin · « **Reply #3 on:** May 21, 2006, 01:08:38 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by OOZ662
We have three tanks...

Sadly, this is not true.

We do actually have two tanks though, so I suppose I mis-spoke. One of them is perked though, so it doesn't really count, imo.

The other "tank" is a worthless heap of ****, and the M-8 is even worse.

We do, however, have a JEEP!

Even more sadly, the jeep is more effective against tanks than the T-34 or M-8.

zorstorer · « **Reply #4 on:** May 21, 2006, 01:30:37 AM »

We (the Russians) did pretty well vs. the panzers in stalins 4th.

Urchin · « **Reply #5 on:** May 21, 2006, 02:14:37 AM »

I'd love to know how.

The Panzer IV seems like it can kill the T-34 easily out to 1500 yards, whereas the T-34s rounds just bounce off unless it is point-blank range.

Plus the Panzer shoots at least twice as fast.

Flayed1 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 21, 2006, 02:22:36 AM »

Hey for what it is I find that jeep really handy. There have been several times when I have a squadmate in a wounded tiger or a wounded panzer wanting to get back to base to land his kills and what do I do??? Up the Super turbo charged JEEP!!!!! And go zippin out to help out a friend.

The jeep is good at what it is desighned for.

mipoikel · « **Reply #7 on:** May 21, 2006, 02:25:02 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Urchin
I'd love to know how.

The Panzer IV seems like it can kill the T-34 easily out to 1500 yards, whereas the T-34s rounds just bounce off unless it is point-blank range.

Plus the Panzer shoots at least twice as fast.

In stalins 4th it was different. Pnzr could kill T34 only if shooting to tracks or sides. Usually 1 hit from T34 killed pnzr.

Russians also had numerical advantage, lets say 20 vs 7.

T34s speed is good, turret turns fast and most fights were close combat.

Bruno · « **Reply #8 on:** May 21, 2006, 02:26:44 AM »

Quote

I'd love to know how.

The Panzer IV seems like it can kill the T-34 easily out to 1500 yards, whereas the T-34s rounds just bounce off unless it is point-blank range.

Plus the Panzer shoots at least twice as fast.

In that event the T-34s out numbered the P IVs by a large margin at any given battle. The Soviets had on average a 2 to 1 advantage over all but for us LW flying the only axis Jabos we were almost never in tanks. LW 3 the Finn Ju-88 gruppe was int he air mostly as well. As such the max amount of P-IVs on average was a max of 30 for the Axis. Axis gruppen were almost never full and those in tanks ended up spread out over a wider area. In my gruppe the only tank action we had 3 P IVs vs at least 15 visible T-34s and some unknown number hidden in the trees. The amount of cover and concealment on the Karelia terrain is much greater then the main maps so GV combat was mostly at close quarters.

I have no idea how the T-34/75 matches up with the P IV Ausf. H in AH and don't care. However, on paper the T-34 should have a hard time taking out a P IV H at range in one vs one combat. AH tanking is just to stupid for me to bother to 'test' them out for myself.

aztec · « **Reply #9 on:** May 21, 2006, 07:55:31 AM »

Don't think it would matter if we did Urchin. Somethin tells me if someone handed you a free twenty dollar bill you'd sneer cause it wasn't a hundred.

Urchin · « **Reply #10 on:** May 21, 2006, 09:52:14 AM »

Aww, I'm sorry... did someone take a **** on your HTC pom-poms?

I guess I could take that "free 20" and have em dry cleaned for you.

aztec · « **Reply #11 on:** May 21, 2006, 11:10:54 AM »

Scuse me sir...I just still have too much fun in AH to find anything to waste my time boo hooing about. However, you feel free to carry on.

humble · « **Reply #12 on:** May 21, 2006, 11:46:14 AM »

The real problem is that you have a mid 43 tank (PZIVH) vs what appears to be a T-34 with the L-11 gun (the original 1940 production gun). The F-34 tube was introduced in 1941 and actually led to the introduction of the F/G series PZIV with the 40 L/43 tube. The T-34 we have here appears to be "BOB" era build...so its like a spitI vs 109G-10 instead of a spitXVI....

As for the jeep, well a .50cal would have had no problem lighting up a tiger in real life from the rear given typical assortment of jerry cans + the muffler/exaust system....but your looking at starting a fire....not penetrating armour. and in the real world nobodys going to chase tigers. The real key here would be either a jeep with a 57mm recoiless rifle or a deployable bazooka team....

The interesting T-34 would be the T-34/57....this varient (actually very rare) had a very high velocity 57mm gun and special ammo for tank hunting...

However T-34's also did OK....hers is a comment from one of the "tanker" BBS's...
Shermans and T-34s were pretty much pure cannon fodder when directly facing Panthers and Tigers.

that goes to quality of the crews and generals. T-34s in good hands scored many victories in one to one battles against Tigers. The problem was that there were very few experienced crews in soviet troops.... most were having just 3 month training before the battle.

For example names of T-34 commanders who burned more than one Tiger in battle:
Lt. Georgiy Besarabov destroyed 4 Tigers of which 3 in single battle
Lt. Mikhail Zamula destroyed 7 Tigers
Hero Lt. Alexander Milyukov destroyed 6 tigers and 1 Panter. The panter and 3 tigers he destroyed in one battle.
Lt. Georgiy Brazhnikov destroyed 5 tigers, of these 4 tigers destroyed in one battle with 8 shots
Hero Lt. Ivan Khitsenko - a young commander who met sudden advance of 10 tigers. He did not retreat but destroyed 5 tigers before his T-34 was burned.
Hero Lt Vasiliy Nikolayev destroyed 4 tigers, all in one battle. He used up all his armor piercing shells for 3 tigers. Without shells he managed to get close to 4th tiger and hit it on full speed with his burning T-34 - destroyed last tiger and died. (besides tigers he also destroyed 2 other tanks in that battle)
Lt. Ivan Golub destroyed 3 tigers and 2 panters
Lt. Georgiy Chesak destroyed 3 tigers
Lt. Nikolai Lazeikin destroyed 3 tigers in one battle besides the 6 other tanks.
Lt. Mikhail Frolov destroyed 3 tigers and two other tanks in one battle
Lt. Vladimir Maksakov destroyed 3 tigers out of his total of 18.
Lt. Alexandr Oskin destroyed 3 king tigers and captured!!! 3 more abandoned by crews, when he attacked alone a column from an ambush in August 1944

These tankers were trained, brave and ..... some of them lucky to prove your earlier point - it is up to a man not the hardware to decide who wins. They were outnumbered but managed to win

humble · « **Reply #13 on:** May 21, 2006, 11:58:01 AM »

Not much available online on the ZIS-4 but from the little I know it was a very effective weapon for its time...Basically a .357mag vs a 38. Anyway I found this....

The high velocity ZIS-4 57mm gun was used in manufacturing in 1941, then halted due to high cost compared to cheap 76mm F-34 gun. But since 1943 ZIS-4 was again resumed due to its high efficiency against new upgraded Panzer IV and Tiger. High velocity shells of ZIS-4 penetrated side armor of both at 1,500 m!!! However this shells lead to VERY VERY LOW DURABILITY...... leading to accidents. Nonetheless few hundreds of these guns were produced and installed in 1941-1944. I read in the Russian article that T-34 armored with ZIS-4 gun DID PENETRATE frontal armor of Panther G from 500m. There were few hundreds of them produced throughout the war.....

IMO this would be an excellent low perk option, lets say a 5-10 perk vehicle. you could use the same T-34 in every way but with different ballistics for the gun.

Brenjen · « **Reply #14 on:** May 21, 2006, 01:54:36 PM »

The T-34's main strength is it's sloping armor which was advanced for it's day.

In AHII it is difficult to knock out a T-34 from the front with a panzer even at extremely close range. You can knock out it's turret a little farther out, but it's frontal glasis is a tough nut to crack in a panzer.

You can knock T-34's out with a tiger at much longer ranges, perhaps this is what got the kills at the 1,500 yards mentioned earlier.

Now from the side it's a simple matter to knock out T-34's with one shot from a panzer even at 1,000 yards. The AHII T-34's main weakness seems to be the anemic main gun...at least I can't seem to kill anything with it unless I get really close & that negates the advantage of sloping armor.

I would love to see the Panther introduced; but any mid-perk range tank that can go toe to toe with a tiger & have a gun that gives it a chance to win at longer than point blank ranges when it gets the first shot would be cool with me.