Author Topic: Israel?  (Read 1488 times)

Offline Momus--

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Israel?
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2006, 10:52:11 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by bozon

It confirmed my suspicions that this is a load of crap written by educated people who read alot but understand little. Bozon


Ok, well instead of using ad hominem against the authors, tell us which particular parts are "crap" and why you think that is the case.

Offline Hangtime

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Israel?
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2006, 11:08:15 AM »
Leaches.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline FiLtH

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Israel?
« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2006, 11:24:04 AM »
Id rather help Israel than not, but not because Jews in America demand it

~AoM~

Offline Yeager

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Israel?
« Reply #33 on: May 24, 2006, 11:46:04 AM »
>teh jews are teh smart and have lernt how to fite<
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline Hangtime

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Israel?
« Reply #34 on: May 24, 2006, 11:47:43 AM »
"A final reason to question Israel’s strategic value is that it does not behave like a loyal ally. Israeli officials frequently ignore US requests and renege on promises (including pledges to stop building settlements and to refrain from ‘targeted assassinations’ of Palestinian leaders). Israel has provided sensitive military technology to potential rivals like China, in what the State Department inspector-general called ‘a systematic and growing pattern of unauthorised transfers’. According to the General Accounting Office, Israel also ‘conducts the most aggressive espionage operations against the US of any ally’. In addition to the case of Jonathan Pollard, who gave Israel large quantities of classified material in the early 1980s (which it reportedly passed on to the Soviet Union in return for more exit visas for Soviet Jews), a new controversy erupted in 2004 when it was revealed that a key Pentagon official called Larry Franklin had passed classified information to an Israeli diplomat. Israel is hardly the only country that spies on the US, but its willingness to spy on its principal patron casts further doubt on its strategic value."

Butt Buddies fer life?

"No discussion of the Lobby would be complete without an examination of one of its most powerful weapons: the charge of anti-semitism. Anyone who criticises Israel’s actions or argues that pro-Israel groups have significant influence over US Middle Eastern policy – an influence AIPAC celebrates – stands a good chance of being labelled an anti-semite. Indeed, anyone who merely claims that there is an Israel Lobby runs the risk of being charged with anti-semitism, even though the Israeli media refer to America’s ‘Jewish Lobby’. In other words, the Lobby first boasts of its influence and then attacks anyone who calls attention to it. It’s a very effective tactic: anti-semitism is something no one wants to be accused of."

Vindictive ungrateful SOB's, enh?

The following for parker & lasersailor:

As the Forward article points out, the majority of Jewish Americans don't share AIPAC's ultra-hawkishness. "Like many other American Jewish organizations, it supported the Iraq war. But 70% of American Jews oppose the Iraq war, according to a poll commission by the American Jewish Committee at the end of 2005."

As the Mearsheimer-Walt study makes evident, such is the lopsided influence of AIPAC and other pro-Israeli lobbies--their ability to control the terms of the debate, and militarize every argument--that liberal sentiments and convictions of the majority of the Jewish community become irrelevant. Seizing at a ray of optimism, the authors conclude, "Although the Lobby remains a powerful force, the adverse effects of its influence are increasingly difficult to hide. Powerful states can maintain flawed policies for quite some time, but reality cannot be ignored for ever."

Such innocence. Of course it can. This is America, after all, and in Bush Country reality can be put on hold indefinitely, until the next major distraction is staged.


Gents, we're being carefully lubed, then systematicaly screwed. By an 'Ally'.

Such a surprise.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline bozon

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Israel?
« Reply #35 on: May 24, 2006, 12:33:02 PM »
Quote
Israel has provided sensitive military technology to potential rivals like China, in what the State Department inspector-general called ‘a systematic and growing pattern of unauthorised transfers’.

The US has provided sensitive military technology to potential rivals like Egypt and Saudi-Arabia.
State Department calls do not authorise anything that threatens american industries loosing sales to the Israeli companies. It forces Israeli companies to work through american companies if they want to actually sell anything.

Quote
Israel also ‘conducts the most aggressive espionage operations against the US of any ally’.

The US monitors Israel using more espionage equipment more that the surrounding countries do.

Quote
In other words, the Lobby first boasts of its influence and then attacks anyone who calls attention to it.

If this is really true that it mean that both the possibilities I suggested earlier are possible simultaniously: American goverment is both corrupt AND stupid.

Momus, I don't have the time now, I'll type a long explanation later.

Bozon
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline Hangtime

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Israel?
« Reply #36 on: May 24, 2006, 12:39:12 PM »
Quote
If this is really true that it mean that both the possibilities I suggested earlier are possible simultaniously: American goverment is both corrupt AND stupid.


Yer expecting an argument? You live under a rock or something?
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline lasersailor184

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Israel?
« Reply #37 on: May 24, 2006, 12:39:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Momus--
The majority of American Jews consider themselves moderates or liberals. Less than 25% identify themselves as conservative. 80% of US Jews that voted turned out for Gore in 2000. Even Kerry got 69% in 2004. I imagine that this is because jews tend to be of above average intelligence and education.

You only find it baffling because reality differs from your preconceptions.



What are you talking about? Fascism was a reactionary conservative phenomenon. Try again.


Wrong.  Painfully wrong.  

Fascism is a political faction that lies on neither side of the political spectrum.  Fascism can be simply defined as a drive for more power, through any means.

The preconception is YOU thinking that Fascism is extreme right wingedness.


It is another misconception to assume that anyone who is intelligent is a liberal.  It is a ploy by you to try to justify yourself as a liberal, and to try to guilt other people into doing it.

"You only find it baffling because reality differs from your preconceptions."  I find it baffling how many jews refuse to acknowledge history.  If you say anything bad about the holocaust, and you are immediately crucified.  If you say anything similar to the events and happenings that lead up to it and no one bats an eye.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline Hangtime

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Israel?
« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2006, 12:49:06 PM »
laser, these are the folks you might be looking for.. and they stand in defiance of the majority of liberal american jewish political groups. RABID defiance.. and in fact they make the NRA look like a buncha liberal puzzies.

these guys get it.. and I KNOW where they stand.

check 'em out here;

http://www.jpfo.org/
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Edbert1

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Israel?
« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2006, 01:16:15 PM »
The term "Nazi" is a nickname for the "National Socialist" party. Two of their main tenants were government run schools and gun control. So you have a political party based upon socialism that wants to run the schools and confiscate the guns.

Leave it to the AH-BBS-OC to think those positions equal conservatism, must be a product of the government schools.

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2006, 01:24:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Wrong.  Painfully wrong.  

Fascism is a political faction that lies on neither side of the political spectrum.  Fascism can be simply defined as a drive for more power, through any means.

The preconception is YOU thinking that Fascism is extreme right wingedness.



The traditional political spectrum has communism and socialism on the left with fascism and conservatism on the right. That particular chart seems to have fell out of fashion. The left/right "perception" certainly can't apply to the two dimensional charts used today.
sand

Offline ~Caligula~

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Israel?
« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2006, 01:29:03 PM »
Countries that helped the jews or simply let them be prospered, countries that persecuted them fell.
Look it up in ur history books if you don`t belive me.

Offline lasersailor184

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Israel?
« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2006, 01:59:17 PM »
Quote
The traditional political spectrum has communism and socialism on the left with fascism and conservatism on the right. That particular chart seems to have fell out of fashion. The left/right "perception" certainly can't apply to the two dimensional charts used today.


I am rather upset that you believe this also.

Communism is to liberalism as Reactionism is the Conservatism.  I've already defined what Fascism is.  Fascism is apolitical.  All sides can use or be fascist.  

I'll say it again, because obviously once is not enough.  Fascism is the drive to do anything to gain ultimate power.  Stalin, Mao, Mussolini, Hitler.  All were fascists, and all were on different sides of the spectrum.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline Debonair

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Israel?
« Reply #43 on: May 24, 2006, 02:08:17 PM »
i think the word you're looking for is authoritarian.
the dictionary definition of fascism contains repeated use of the phrase "right wing"
that being said, i'd say it is pretty hard to tell the difference between the extremes of undemocratic left & right wing .gov, but what do i know, i've only ever lived in the US.  whatever i've read & believed in a book is more likely than not someone's jaded propoganda

Offline lasersailor184

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Israel?
« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2006, 02:12:30 PM »
No.  I'm not.  Authoritarian is the ultimate goal.  Fascism is the method to get there.


You can rewrite as many dictionaries as you want, that doesn't change reality.  


Liberals generally want more government control, republicans want less.  IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE FOR EXTREME REPUBLICANS TO WANT GOVERNMENT TO HAVE ULTIMATE CONTROL.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"