Author Topic: IL-2 puts others to shame. **OPINION ALERT**  (Read 3098 times)

Offline DeeZCamp

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IL-2 puts others to shame. **OPINION ALERT**
« Reply #75 on: August 27, 2001, 06:07:00 PM »
You know what I notice... I notice that in america things are always ended with happy endings, things are told in twisted ways to make only the good or at least the percieved outcome of something seem good.

In college, learning german, you hear of stories from german resources and other countries, simple and yet effective stories.

Examples are childrens stories that are told from generation to generation to teach, and inform children of day to day activities.

An example is a story about a child who doesnt want to eat his soup.  Throughout the tale it illustrates how the child lost more and more weight up to the point where he lost so much weight that he died, and keep in mind this is a children's story.  Another story that I can remember is about a little girl playing with matches...and again, in graphic detail, the story illustrates exactly what would happen to the child if they were to play with matches....a little girl going up in flames, and again, dying.  

In contrast, American children's tales, for example, Pinochicco, have this little wooden marionette(sp?) lying his way throughout the whole story with his nose growing longer and longer with each lie. At the end of the story freaking pinochicco gets his wish and becomes a real boy and everyone lives happily ever after. As of this moment, I can not think of one story that doesn't live happily ever after..

corruption in the system of america.

MY POINT AFTER ALL THIS:

American Ideals and Data may not be the most Accurate, or truthfull in thier details.  :(

I tend to beleive that the country whom fought the enemy and interacted with for a longer time would have some, if not more accurate data.

Offline LLv34_Snefens

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« Reply #76 on: August 27, 2001, 07:24:00 PM »
By looking at Pinochicco you come to the conclusion that American test data might be inaccurate?

A bit of a reach isn't it  :)

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Offline Tuomio

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« Reply #77 on: August 27, 2001, 08:11:00 PM »
I came to same conclusion. If they created Pinochio, then my god what other evil things they might have done?

ps. You can already compare those TsAGI climb rates which i posted few days ago in Aircraft  subforum. They are very similar to NACA.

Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #78 on: August 27, 2001, 08:15:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tuomio:
I came to same conclusion. If they created Pinochio, then my god what other evil things they might have done?

Don't forget PUFF the Magic Dragon! (he lived by the sea)
-SW

Offline Vulcan

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« Reply #79 on: August 27, 2001, 08:18:00 PM »
OK... very funny FDBs, how many times have I told you DON'T MESS WITH DEEZ's DOSAGE!!!

 
Quote
Originally posted by DeeZCamp:
American Ideals and Data may not be the most Accurate, or truthfull in thier details.   :(

I tend to beleive that the country whom fought the enemy and interacted with for a longer time would have some, if not more accurate data.

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #80 on: August 27, 2001, 08:38:00 PM »
A little note on why Oleg doesn't "share" his data with the community.

Just a thought, I am not sure that it's so - but I think it's reasonable.

Oleg got some flight test data from TsAGI and LII. He probably even had to pay them for it. The case is that people who work there make money selling this data, and they could easily make Oleg sign some kind of NDA. Not because of the good old Soviet habbit to classify everything, but because if he will share the test charts with public - they'll be unable to sell it to someone else.

To Luthier: please, don't be surprised that many people here still think that all Russians are evil commies wearing fur hats with red stars. Some people even think that hammer and a sickle are a traditional Russian weapon.  ;) It's one of the reasons why Western public is so hostile to anything that comes from Russia. So, prepare to be treated as "imbecilic communist bastard" (c) Jay Littman.

Offline Pei

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« Reply #81 on: August 28, 2001, 09:08:00 AM »
Thanks Luthier! I look forward to finding out more about the IL2 postion on this.

DeeZCamp:
The RAF data conocurs with the US data and the RAF was fighting against the LuftWaffe for quite a while before the invasion of Russia. Also I believe that the USAAF had quite a bit of experience in combat against the Me109 and the Fw190  :).
I won't go into your arguments that US data is inherently inaccurate. There is more data than the NACA to support the currently accpeted theory and for me and for many others it will need quite a bit of evidence to oveturn this. It would also require a reasonable explanation of the differences in the data.
I do not believe that the current theory should be set in stone but I do believe that theory has a lot of evidence to support it and I would think it reasonably that in order to overturn it evidence should be supplied.

Boroda:
Characterizing westerners as prejudiced and stupid is as unfair and offensive as westerners characterizing Russians as "imbecilic communist bastard"s. I have a great deal of respect for Oleg Maddox and the work he is doing, I, and many others here, just have some questions about the FM. I am still very much looking forward to playing the game.

Maybe I will meet all of you in a IL2 server in the not to distant future and you can teach me the error of my ways  ;)

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #82 on: August 28, 2001, 09:18:00 AM »
luthier

Galland also reccomended to Hitler and Milch that the only the FW190 and Me262 be produced as the Me109 was obsolete.

Offline Dead Man Flying

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« Reply #83 on: August 28, 2001, 09:26:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DeeZCamp:
In contrast, American children's tales, for example, Pinochicco, have this little wooden marionette(sp?) lying his way throughout the whole story with his nose growing longer and longer with each lie. At the end of the story freaking pinochicco gets his wish and becomes a real boy and everyone lives happily ever after. As of this moment, I can not think of one story that doesn't live happily ever after..

You do know that Pinnochio was originally written by an Italian, in Italian, for Italians?

So much for strictly American fairy tales.

-- Todd/DMF

Offline Possi

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« Reply #84 on: August 28, 2001, 09:36:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
luthier

Galland also reccomended to Hitler and Milch that the only the FW190 and Me262 be produced as the Me109 was obsolete.

Thats correct,becouse there only just need Fighters for attack B-17 and attack Groundtargets.Germany go in the Defensive this Time and not in Offensive.

IL-2 is Revolution and there looks like there Win  :D

Offline Naso

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« Reply #85 on: August 28, 2001, 09:40:00 AM »
Thx DMF to point at that, was already with pointer on Replay button.  ;)

Strange how a Spaghetti-man can write a tale translated in a number of languages near to the holy bible.

Naaa.... must be an US immigrant  ;)  :p

Offline luthier

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« Reply #86 on: August 28, 2001, 01:24:00 PM »
More on BF-109 vs FW-190:

This info is from Leutnant a.D. Alfred Ambs (JG7)!
He was telephoned today and askabout the whole subject. This is what he said:

1.A 109 can roll very fast when she flying above 300 km/h. She can roll in 3 sec. or a little big quicker. Faster Fly = quicker
Rolls

2. Some people stated that Bf-109's were too easy to pull out of a dive in Il-2. However Herr Ambs states that it is incorrect, Bf-109 had very smooth elevator control at high speeds and could exit dives even above 700 km/h

3. Finally, about whether the FW- 190 can make faster rolls than a Bf109 and he said a very strong NEIN!


Hope you can find this opinion trustworthy.

Offline Staga

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« Reply #87 on: August 28, 2001, 02:28:00 PM »
This is gonna be interesting.

Offline Westy MOL

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« Reply #88 on: August 28, 2001, 03:15:00 PM »
"This is gonna be interesting."

 Not really. When discussion of any FM in a computer programs gets backed up with 60 year old memories and pilot anecdotes it simply turn into a flame war and ends in hurt feelings.

 Westy

Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #89 on: August 28, 2001, 03:26:00 PM »
So, I've read in books from German pilots that the 190 rolls faster than the 109..

I guess they are all wrong, but since they aren't alive today we can't tell them that.
-SW