Author Topic: Long ago in warbirds.... (Read 3996 times)

Urchin · « **Reply #75 on:** May 30, 2006, 10:49:03 AM »

Guys, Soupcan is HTC's intended audience, not us.

It would be just about impossible to keep someone who's played the game for more than a couple years happy with the same gameplay and planes, but it stays enjoyable for a year or two, depending on the person.

That is whats supposed to happen. If you make the game "enjoyable" for the vets you might make it to hard for the newbies, which is exactly the opposite of what AH needs to survive.

How many people do you know that have played for more than say..3 years? I only know a handful. But, the MA consistantly has 450-500 people on during the evening - even in the summer.

Back when I was enjoying this game, there would be maybe 100-150 on. So that tells me that something about the gameplay, as stale as it may be once you've played for a long time, is enticing to people.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. It is sad but true in this case. The "vets" are broke, not the game.

Toad · « **Reply #76 on:** May 30, 2006, 11:05:43 AM »

Disagree, Urchin.

The "new" guys never played the game when it was designed with simpler gameplay that led to faster paced action and more individual fights.

To say they wouldn't have enjoyed it then is speculation; they've never been given the chance.

They've been offered the dreck that is the MA now and enough find it acceptable and fun.

That in no way proves that they would not enjoy the older Beta style gameplay even more.

SlapShot · « **Reply #77 on:** May 30, 2006, 11:12:54 AM »

just yesterday i encountered at least 20 different models
of aircraft in less than 2 hours of gameplay so ya to me
thats variety.

Yeah right ... and then you woke up ... I can encounter 20 different models in maybe a week ... but never within a 2 hour period ... I call bullcrap.

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #78 on:** May 30, 2006, 11:51:56 AM »

Well, lets be fair here. HT has done some things right that others hadn't which has resulted in a large player base. Things like, oh, advertising. And not turning the reins over to idjits or mega-corps.

But ...

In any technology product you have to stay ahead of the curve. AH is a MMOG, so what separates it from the IL2 games is what you can do online as opposed to the whizziest explosion effects, or pixel-perfect cockpits. CT is a step ahead, but I don't know how broad its appeal will be; or what effect it'll have on the MA.

The current product (the MA) churns people through at a pace which is paying the bills. If spending some time reworking the MA mechanics resulted in maybe 1/4 or 1/3 more of the players staying more than two years, well, that's just more money in the bank.

Killjoy2 · « **Reply #79 on:** May 30, 2006, 01:09:54 PM »

Make an area of the map that only early war planes can launch.

Separate it with a little distance (say 2 secotrs). If you want to capture these bases you pretty much have to do it with early planes.

I would also use this technique to do an Allied vs Axis map area.

If we can have tank town and fighter town, why not early war town?

MonsterO · « **Reply #80 on:** May 30, 2006, 01:29:56 PM »

Fester had a remedy for the problems we have when he created festerma. By disabling buffs and only EW planes on furball island. Great map that had something for everyone to enjoy. No need to split the community, just create a area on the map where all 3 countries meet and limit planes with no buffs.

hubsonfire · « **Reply #81 on:** May 30, 2006, 02:07:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by DoKGonZo

The current product (the MA) churns people through at a pace which is paying the bills. If spending some time reworking the MA mechanics resulted in maybe 1/4 or 1/3 more of the players staying more than two years, well, that's just more money in the bank.

OTOH, noobs don't start threads like this. Noobs don't complain about flap modelling, or question weapon ballistics, or ask why CT has taken most of their (young) adult lives, and there's only a few screenshots to show for it.

Noobs, basically, just pay their money, and have fun flying whatever plane they can figure out how to select. In that regard, I can understand why HTC is more concerned with getting more of them in, than keeping more of us around.

lazs2 · « **Reply #82 on:** May 30, 2006, 02:21:53 PM »

killjoy... a few years ago I suggested an early war area for maps that was in essence... our fighter town on that one good map we now have except... I wanted late war beasts to not be available.

you should have seen the outrage! My taking away choice! never mind that the whole rest of the arena would still be "anything goes"

the guys you see protesting about making things more fair for early war planes.... what they really want is to see early war planes have to compete with their late war ones... that is all they really are about... they simply do not want to give up their unfair advantage.

Also... what they really fear is.... that if there was an early war area on the maps that people would go there and not play with them... that no early war easy to kill planes would be left for them to get some easy and unfair kills on.

I would love to see a fighter town area on every map and have it be an early/mid war only area.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

WldThing · « **Reply #83 on:** May 30, 2006, 02:43:34 PM »

I must be the only one that likes the MA the way it is.. I roll whatever I want, and when I want.. If I notice a horde incoming I find a different fight, if I cant find a different fight (Which has hardly ever happened, I go to AvA). Sometimes I opt to fight the horde, if I die too bad, it was my decision so why get upset?

The gameplay seems fine to me. I don't expect to stay alive in a P40 when entering a spit16 furball, so my intention is get as many as I can while living. And this has been the same way for the past 5 or so years, nothing has changed for me, and I somewhat want it to stay that way.

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #84 on:** May 30, 2006, 02:57:02 PM »

An EW FT won't help the MA as a whole.

Pork-Horde-Vultch-Repeat just gets boring and that's the rut the MA has fallen into.

And I don't think that just because the vets are posting about it is all that relevant - the BBS population has always been a small fraction of the whole. A lot of the newer players probably just assume the MA is what it is, and make their decision to stay or go based on that; not knowing these discussions are even going on.

I think what the more experienced players see is that the MA could be so much better with some tweaking, regardless of what plane/style you prefer.

soupcan · « **Reply #85 on:** May 30, 2006, 05:35:24 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SlapShot
[

Yeah right ... and then you woke up ... I can encounter 20 different models in maybe a week ... but never within a 2 hour period ... I call bullcrap. [/B]

not BS here is my list of planes seen so far today:
(been online 1.5 hours)

lancs 24s 17s tbm seafire 4fu la5 la7 spit16 f4f f6f 190 hurri
109 mossie niki p51 p47 yak c205

Toad · « **Reply #86 on:** May 30, 2006, 05:39:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
I think what the more experienced players see is that the MA could be so much better with some tweaking, regardless of what plane/style you prefer.

That and seeing that it was far better before. As we continued down the road to incompletely planned and incompletely executed complexity (strat system????), the gameplay tanked.

Lusche · « **Reply #87 on:** May 30, 2006, 06:28:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SlapShot
just yesterday i encountered at least 20 different models
of aircraft in less than 2 hours of gameplay so ya to me
thats variety.

Yeah right ... and then you woke up ... I can encounter 20 different models in maybe a week ... but never within a 2 hour period ... I call bullcrap.

I was online today two times, fighting basically one offensive and one prologened defensive battle, total flight time about 3h. I took a quick look at some of my films (I am filming most engagements) and found following plane types:

F4F, F4U-C/D/4, Spit 16, Spit VIII, Mossie, B24, B17, Lancaster, Ju88, Yak9, Bf109K, P51D, P51B, P47D, P38G&L, P47N, P40E, Il2,Bf110G,Fw190A5, Fw109A8, La7, La5, N1K, Hurri2c,Ki84 ,C205,F6F

I just wonder why I did not see any Typhoon or Hurri2C...
But there could have been some more I encountered, but I did not want to watch every film from start to end.

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #88 on:** May 30, 2006, 06:32:10 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
That and seeing that it was far better before. As we continued down the road to incompletely planned and incompletely executed complexity (strat system????), the gameplay tanked.

Strategic elements (like factories - not barracks) have been difficult to implement since ... forever. If you make it too difficult to do, no one bothers. If you make a strat really damaging to a side if it's destroyed, it'll get porked (as opposed to the proper coordinated missions that were the design goal). The bomber guys invest a lot of time getting to a strat target, they don't want to be wiped out by a handful of jets when they're a minute from dropping. By the same token, people who want to fly fighters don't want to constantly be a pincushion to the defensive guns of bomber formations. It's a really tough balance.

I think the core of "the problem" is that AH2 has absorbed a lot of new people and hasn't changed to accomodate the drift towards the "gamer" mindset that has ensued. The value system (for want of a better term) that worked OK for the original playerbase is now fostering the decline we now see.

To a gamer entering AH2, all they see if the power-ups of perks and the Atta-boys from landing kills as individual goals. And for those into The War, all they need is numbers and lots of cannon-armed planes to HO and vultch with and eventually they win by attrition if nothing else.

Vortex · « **Reply #89 on:** May 30, 2006, 11:57:20 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Here's another notion now that I've had my coffee ...

What if multi-rank were done in conjunction with an RPS. So the ranking for P40's would include the P40B and P40E rotation of that plane up through the end of 1942 (when it ceases to be competetive). The Me109 Rank, though, would go from the beginning (109E4) to end (109K4) of the Tour. Same with the Spit.

And for the veterans who don't care about ranks, well, we'd get an RPS and the opportunity to fly all the planes in a more balanced environment.

You know, that's the first scoring system I've seen that I'd actually have a modicum of interest in. The RPS/evolving score based on plane type would add a rather interesting flavour to things I think. Its actually a bit of an avatar type format, albeit a very loose one. An interesting format though to be sure.