Author Topic: 456 players and 4 hordes per side..  (Read 1360 times)

Offline Tilt

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456 players and 4 hordes per side..
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2006, 08:11:06 AM »
Zone limits spread game play..............and lower FR's
Ludere Vincere

Offline Toad

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« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2006, 09:35:54 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mars01
Get rid of all small maps, add a FT to all remaining maps and/or move all bases to minimum distance apart.  Do nothing and watch the game continue to languish.


Adding an FT does nothing to reduce the suckage. It merely provides a place to find respite from the suckage.

What's really needed is an overhaul of the reward system to improve gameplay. The law of unintended consequences has struck AH hard and below the belt.

This "perk" idea....as if perks are actually worthing something....led to the "reset for perks" goal. The "reset desire" led to the horde steamroller. Score and the posting of the highest ranks led to timidity and increased cherrypicking. Adding too many V-bases to the maps spread the airwar out WAY too far and created the path of least resistance. The majority of players head for the shortest flight/closest base, generatin a horde every time. EVERY A-field HAS a V-hangar....there's NO reason why every field shouldn't be an A-field. Getting GV's "close to the fight" isn't a problem; there's INSTASPAWN (tm) that allows them to beam across half the map with a mouse click if the map-maker so desires.

If you want to improve the gameplay, something must be done to reward air-to-air combat, which is what this game is supposed to be about.

Simply put, the game rewards actions that result in boring gameplay.

Until that is addressed we'll have ..... boring gameplay.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline mars01

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« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2006, 09:45:20 AM »
Yeah I agree totally Toad.

But at least with FT the percentage of logging in and having a place to fight goes up a bit.

Offline Hap

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« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2006, 02:56:11 PM »
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Originally posted by Roscoroo
I lov diving into the hoard machine and Doing whatever the voices tell me to ....

muhahahahahaa :D



:aok

hap

Offline Roscoroo

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« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2006, 03:34:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chalenge
Which last night was land on a field with GVs all over it. I am still wondering why you were trying that.


need gas ... on E . (insert eng sputters here) ... gotta land ... oh $#%^^^%$# ... well the good guy gv's may protect me .....   BOOOOM ... oh well back to the tower quicker then expected ..  :D
Roscoroo ,
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Offline Nifty

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« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2006, 04:02:46 PM »
meh.  I'm back playing after a long hiatus.  The only difference between then and now is there are more people online when I play, but the gameplay is the same.

Poor lazs has been saying the same thing for years, and he's right.  It's the very rare opportunity that one has to up an F4F (for example) in the MA and be able to find a "good" fight.  The distance between airfields causes boredom for those wanting to fly slower planes, unless you try to up in the face of the horde.  The exceptions are places like Furball Island or when a CV is parked off the coast of an airfield.  

Toad, I don't think anything can be done to improve the A2A combat. Until you get people to realize it's OK to lose a fight and "die", you will always have people flying timid.  Though, that in itself brings up a paradox of sorts.  It's completely ok for some people to auger while battling a building or a CV, but they'll turn and run at the sight of multiple red cons.

At the same time, I can understand the timidness.  They treat the flight as if they were doing the real thing.  Real "doctrine" is if you're not fighting with the advantage, then you're fighting wrong.  For them, landing the flight is what's fun.  To me, whenever I play to live in the MA, I don't have as much fun as I do when I just go all in regardless of the situation (though I get frustrated a bit more that way.)
proud member of the 332nd Flying Mongrels, noses in the wind since 1997.

Offline DoKGonZo

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« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2006, 04:17:05 PM »
I get a kick out of the LVT Spawn Cloud tactic - when you can't up figthers cuz you're losing, just start upping LVT's and PT's as fast as possible in a mad dash to the shore. Being on the pier 37mm gun with tracers off when that tactic is deployed is just too funny.

Or the insta-spawn torpedo weenies ... who just keep upping a PT, launching fish in direction of enemy fleet, and then back to tower - giving a free kill to whoever happens to be overhead at the moment. Well, those and the ones who watched too much McHales Navy and shoot torpedos at coastal airfields.


But anyway ...

Perks are too big a driving factor - too many times when someone lands a nice streak they announce how many perks it was on team channel. You can almost tell how big a Horde is coming by how many C205's and P40's are in the mix looking to vultch for perks.

Reward air combat - treat ground kills as manouever kills for a start, stop rewarding vultching so much. And harden base strats (troops, ord, radar) so that players need to find some other way to "help the team" - one that requires skills beyond that of a bag of dung falling off the back of a garbage truck. It's no wonder people HO some much when half the things they are shooting at are either stationary or rolling down the runway.

GV's more often than not are used in a griefer capacity. If a 500 pound bomb can't kill a GV, it sure as hell will make the crew woozy from the concussion. So add GV crew black-outs due to proximity bomb hits. Then watch the use of  GV's w/o air cover drop like a rock.


There are probably a dozen small changes to scoring and MA mechanics which could yield huge payoffs in gameplay.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2006, 05:32:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nifty
It's completely ok for some people to auger while battling a building or a CV, but they'll turn and run at the sight of multiple red cons.


Simply because augering into a building or CV is a choice THEY make; it's deliberate, it's honorable because they're "giving their all" to "help the team".

Dying to another player is LOSING. Cod ferbid you should actually lose a fight; how would one ever stand the shame of losing to another human being in a cartoon online game?

Far, far better to give one's cartoon life to the lemming horde and honorably kill an outhouse.

I'm far from the best fighter pilot in this game but I'm dammed if I'm afraid of "dying" in a cartoon plane game.

The fun is in the fight. They'd realize that if they grew a pair and gave it a try.

Somehow, gameplay and rewards have to be changed to emphasize the fight.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline MOIL

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456 players and 4 hordes per side..
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2006, 05:55:15 PM »
I LOVE YOU ALL,   I'D LIKE TO THANK THE ACADEMY AND ...................

Offline Nifty

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« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2006, 07:57:09 PM »
Hmm, maybe the only thing that will help those people is to have an option to fly anonymously to the enemy sides.  Someone shoots them down, and all they see is "You shot down an anonymous pilot" or something of the sort.  

Even if you turned off ordnance, vehicles and strat which would force nothing but air to air combat, these types would still have the timid, horde mentality.  They'll still turn tail as soon as the odds are against them.

To be honest, I can't think of a single change in gameplay that would change that type of player.  They play to land the flight first and foremost.  You and I, of course we want to land the fight, but we won't back down until we're bingo ammo/fuel, or just damaged to the point where all we can do is run.  

How do we get the other group to adopt our mentality?  More importantly, should we even try to get the group to adopt our mentality?  Sure, we think the fight is the most fun, but to them, maybe "winning" is the most fun.  Holding off a Spit16 and a N1K2 in a 109F-4 for some time was a lot of fun for me a couple of nights ago, even though I only managed a few pings on the N1K2 before I lost.  To someone else, maybe they think that's an awful way to spend a few minutes in game.  If they wouldn't enjoy that fight, why should we try to get them to face those types of fights?
proud member of the 332nd Flying Mongrels, noses in the wind since 1997.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2006, 08:06:46 AM »
yep... someone that isn't a strat girl needs to make some maps that have the fields closest to the center 3/4 of a sector apart.  lots of em..

It might not even work these days tho... the attention starved horde wussies and strat girls will go where they see a fight and drop the radar and Fighter hangers.

no matter where it is or how unimportant the fields....  a good fight is like waving a red flag in the face of the attention starved strat girls...

They are infuriated and excieted all at the same time... they allmost wet themselves thinking about how easy it will be to destroy such a good fight for so many.  

The only good thing would be that there would be so many that they couldn't get em all...  enough that those who like air combat could maybe allways find a place to up and have some fun before the women showed up.

lazs
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Offline TexMurphy

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« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2006, 08:21:46 AM »
Play AvA instead...

No hoards... good fights... good pilots...

Tex

Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2006, 08:50:48 AM »
Quote
If you want to improve the gameplay, something must be done to reward air-to-air combat, which is what this game is supposed to be about.


 That was the past. This is the present. Wake up and get a grasp on the concept of time - it flows from the past to the present to the future in our Earthly dimension. The glory days of pure, simple, homey, cozy, 'veteranesque' A2A combat is gone and it is not coming back. Face the reality.

 You can dream all you want about how 'this game is supposed to be about A2A', but no amount of 'reward' is gonna get people to emphasize soley on aerial combat as in the good ol' AH1 days. Times have changed, people have changed, and the definition of "fun" has also changed with it. Back then, the goal of the game was to have A2A fun. Nowadays, the goal of the game is to take part in the war and achieve victory by means of aerial, naval, and ground combat combined. I didn't make this up, nor did HT set it up this way. It's simply the people nowadays play it that way.

 The game has changed. GVs, fleets, all of it has become a vital part of the MA and the emphasis on combat doesn't just shift from where it is by willing it. People will play this game for the sole purpose of "winning the war" and there's nothing you can do about it, whether you personally think its lame or not. However, what is still possible, is to find a good compromising point in the overall structure of how the basic strat of the game is laid out, so that the 'fighter combat fun' does not necessarily have to be incompatible with the 'warring fun'. As it is, the current status of MA is one of total chaos, where the sheer size of overall combat has far exceeded the point where people can self-organize (or at least follow a set of moral codes) so that the gameplay stays healthy and orderly enough to enjoy the many aspects of AH to the full.

 In the old days people followed the 'moral code of the old vets' where they didn't care much of land-grabbing. AH was like a small town where everybody knew everyone else, most of the whom already know each other from some other, previous sim they used to play together. Compared to that, the current AH2 is like a bustling metropolis, and going Hill-billy-retro and ranting about the good square-dancing and baked-beans and lawn-barbeque-party days is not gonna bring the friendly neighborhood back.

 Face the future, old man. What AH needs is not some way to 'bring the fighter combat days back'. What it needs is some way to organize the strat into something that makes sense, so that in some parts of the map the limited aspect of "pure aerial combat" will have a chance to manifest more thoroughly from time to time, depending on its necessity based on the larger picture of general strategy.

 In other words, if the MA strat gets a total overhaul and people submit themselves to some kind of basic structure that is carried on by the game, then the deployment of forces would be more limited and organized, instead of the impulsive, nasty, Armageddon locust horde we have in the game. Fighter numbers will be more evened out, and people will have to fight with limited resources - in which case the stupid suicidal augering and HOing frenzy will do nothing but ultimately harm a country's capability to win and advance at the particular front. It is only then, when facing the facts that what they're doing is harming the country rather than benefitting it, will people begin to fly differently, emphasizing more on the results of fighter skirmish absed on skill, rather than lazily depending on steamrolling everything with brute force.

 It's about time AH moved on, instead of turn back 180 degrees and go back to 'this game is supposed to be about fighter combat'. The problem with AH is not there is too many changes, but too less.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2006, 08:58:02 AM »
^

LOL!


Quote
people submit themselves to some kind of basic structure that is carried on by the game
[/b]

How typical that your solution is " submit and play my way" though.


I think the CT forum is thataway ------>
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline TexMurphy

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« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2006, 09:27:26 AM »
Kweassa

I think you are partially right especially in the sence that everything has its time. Times change and so does everything. Its the cause of nature and it does affect online games as well, all online games.

But I dont think that organization is what the game needs. Organization and structure will come with CT for those who want it.

Though you are touching what I think is the answer to our problem. Strats.

War´s have never been won through conquering airfields. They have been won through conquering strategical areas and cutting the supply lines of the enemy.

If the war effort was moved AWAY from the airfields and towards the strats there would be much much less of a clash between the war winners and the furballers.

The furballers could fly straight lines between airfields and dogfighting other furballers while the war winners would fly between strats and airfields in both offence and defense.

Tex