Author Topic: Please fix the rampant Ordinance Porking  (Read 4125 times)

Offline Kev367th

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Please fix the rampant Ordinance Porking
« Reply #90 on: June 08, 2006, 10:53:57 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Simaril
Might have more success giving the land war guys built in game incentives to not interfere with the fighter guys' fun -- like toughening hangars/strats while leaving town buildings and ack at their current levels. The more I think about this idea the more I like it...


This is an incentive? How exactly.

For a GV'er just makes it harder to kill the ord so you get egged every 5 mins.
At least think everything through.

One 'small' change that seems like a good idea for one group of players can affect all the other groups.
So the question becomes - If your HT who do you cater to?

Edbert - whether you like it or not the game is now "Win the War".
« Last Edit: June 08, 2006, 10:57:30 AM by Kev367th »
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Offline stantond

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Please fix the rampant Ordinance Porking
« Reply #91 on: June 08, 2006, 11:14:51 AM »
One BF110 can take out the VH, Ordinance, (1) FH, Troops, and Radar at an airfield with one ammo loadout.   Low La7's can take out ordinance, troops, and dar in a couple of passes.  Maybe cannons are over modeled, or buildings need to be tougher?  Alternately, and I know this is going to go over like a lead balloon.... proximity fuses on carrier and field ack.



Regards,

Malta

Offline Donzo

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Please fix the rampant Ordinance Porking
« Reply #92 on: June 08, 2006, 11:20:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by stantond
One BF110 can take out the VH, Ordinance, (1) FH, Troops, and Radar at an airfield with one ammo loadout.   Low La7's can take out ordinance, troops, and dar in a couple of passes.  Maybe cannons are over modeled, or buildings need to be tougher?  Alternately, and I know this is going to go over like a lead balloon.... proximity fuses on carrier and field ack.



Regards,

Malta


I thought the carrier ack had proximity fuses...at the least the manned ones.

Offline Simaril

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Please fix the rampant Ordinance Porking
« Reply #93 on: June 08, 2006, 11:31:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kev367th
This is an incentive? How exactly.

For a GV'er just makes it harder to kill the ord so you get egged every 5 mins.
At least think everything through.

One 'small' change that seems like a good idea for one group of players can affect all the other groups.
So the question becomes - If your HT who do you cater to?

Edbert - whether you like it or not the game is now "Win the War".



Good point about the GV'ers.

By incentive, I meant a structural rule setup that channels efforts in the direction you would love to see them go. In that sense, tougher VH, FH, and BH all mean that attacking them becomes less productive, or less efficient use of ordinance. By leaving buildings unchanged, and making hangars tougher, you give a gameplay incentive for attakcers to hit buildings and leave hangars up -- and that allows more players to get involved.
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Offline DoKGonZo

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Please fix the rampant Ordinance Porking
« Reply #94 on: June 08, 2006, 11:31:28 AM »
Wow ... there are some really interesting twists of logic going on here. And apparently a few folks don't remember things they posted only a few months ago about the evils of one groups of players deliberately ruining the gameplay of  another.

However ...

Rampant porking is nothing new. All that's really changed is the total numbers involved. The rationalization of "helping the team" is thin, because there's porking of undefended bases, bases 3 levels behind the front, bases being horded, everywhere. The 4 or 5 planes busy blowing up ord during a base attack would probably be more useful taking the town down. But then they couldn't vultch - and get perks - which is all its really about.


I don't think the concern about bigger hordes matters at this point. It's not uncommon to see 20+ planes CAP'ing a base (with FH down) waiting for the C47's to arrive these days. Would 5 more planes make a difference? Nah.


The arguments against hardening ground assets from a historical angle are irrelevent. The point is the current system has given griefers the means to mess things up for others, and waste the time of anyone who tries to chase them down.


In general I'm against adding more AAA to fields, because that leads to too much running to the ack. But given the current war of attrition, some changes may be in order. Maybe adjust the rebuild time on AAA based on how many enemy planes are over a field as a start. So in the 20:0 case I mentioned above, the ack rebuilds in like a minute and loitering around over the field becomes hazardous.

Maybe add more AAA positions, but some only activate when a certain number of planes are over a field. So if your field has 6 auto guns as a base, maybe that goes up to 8 when 10 enemy planes are overhead, 10 when there's 20, and so on. And maybe the additional AAA are M16's that pop onto the field. Something with enough rate of fire to stand a good chance of scoring some hits - and that won't be taken out with one cannon shell.

Offline Elfie

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Please fix the rampant Ordinance Porking
« Reply #95 on: June 08, 2006, 11:44:23 AM »
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Sorry Whels always been able to do it with 5.


Ords has a 2 hour rebuild time. Each load of supplies takes 15 minutes off that time. If only one person is running supplies it wont take a full 8 loads to resupply a base simply because of the time you spend running those supplies to the field, the clock on the rebuild time is still counting down while you are flying your C-47 or driving your M-3 to the field.
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Offline mars01

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Please fix the rampant Ordinance Porking
« Reply #96 on: June 08, 2006, 11:58:08 AM »
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Wow ... there are some really interesting twists of logic going on here. And apparently a few folks don't remember things they posted only a few months ago about the evils of one groups of players deliberately ruining the gameplay of another.
No Dok we remember quite perfectly and while I am against "the evils of one group of players deliberately ruining the gameplay of another" when it is that group of players that has been ruining game play for so many finally getting a taste of their own medicine I am all for it.:aok

Offline Gryf

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Please fix the rampant Ordinance Porking
« Reply #97 on: June 08, 2006, 12:33:11 PM »
I'm having a hard time believing you'd build runways, hangers an revetments for aircraft and not make the ammunition dump proof against up to medium caliber cannon fire (like 30mm). Dropping a 250lber or up on the ordnance depot should kill it. A full load of .50 should do jack.

I know that idea of making someone drop a bomb to prevent others from dropping bombs sounds odd, it's pretty logical and certainly prevents the quick and easy porking from happening.

Offline Mak333

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Please fix the rampant Ordinance Porking
« Reply #98 on: June 08, 2006, 12:35:13 PM »
I agree with others when they say they haven't realized how bad the ordinance porking was.  But, to be honest, even with that comment, I can't seem to find solid ground to argue the point that there needs to be a solution to all of the strat porking.  

If your troops are down, fuel is low, ordinance is gone... simply re-up from another base.  If you can't up from another base from the same problem, then its your fault for letting the enemy take out your resources not only at the first line of defense, but at the second line as well.

For the most part, that's not the case.  Usually you can up from a base only 20-30 miles away that has ordinance.  There is nothing wrong with not being able to take off from a front line base and spending an extra 4-8 minutes to gather your resources and yourself, fly an extra 20 miles to go on strat run that the enemy just put upon you.
Mak

Offline DoKGonZo

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Please fix the rampant Ordinance Porking
« Reply #99 on: June 08, 2006, 12:37:31 PM »
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Originally posted by mars01
No Dok we remember quite perfectly and while I am against "the evils of one group of players deliberately ruining the gameplay of another" when it is that group of players that has been ruining game play for so many finally getting a taste of their own medicine I am all for it.:aok


Either you stand against griefing or you don't. Pretty simple.

Offline Simaril

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Please fix the rampant Ordinance Porking
« Reply #100 on: June 08, 2006, 03:54:38 PM »
Well, there IS schadenfreud.....


not the player, but the feeling of satisfaction when ones opponent encounters misfortune.


I'd bet most reasonable fighter guys would be perfectly happy if the GVers, the Landwar Wagers, and the Air-to-Air guys all had equal opportunity to do their thing.
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Offline mars01

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Please fix the rampant Ordinance Porking
« Reply #101 on: June 08, 2006, 03:58:38 PM »
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Either you stand against griefing or you don't. Pretty simple.


Give me a break Dok are you always this stubborn?  If you can't understand what I am saying just forget about it.

Offline Lye-El

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Please fix the rampant Ordinance Porking
« Reply #102 on: June 08, 2006, 04:17:21 PM »
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Originally posted by mars01
No Dok we remember quite perfectly and while I am against "the evils of one group of players deliberately ruining the gameplay of another" when it is that group of players that has been ruining game play for so many finally getting a taste of their own medicine I am all for it.:aok


So griefing is only a point of view? If you're the one doing it to somebody else it's OK? Gotcha.

In that case, I guess I don't see a problem with the way it is because "so many" seem to want to play current way. :aok


i dont got enough perkies as it is and i like upen my lancs to kill 1 dang t 34 or wirble its fun droping 42 bombs

Offline mars01

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Please fix the rampant Ordinance Porking
« Reply #103 on: June 08, 2006, 04:18:59 PM »
OMG we got another one.

No Lyel - Griefing the griefers is a direct result of having griefers.  Get rid of the griefers and there is no one to griefe.  Get it?

On top of wich we are only doing what all you guys told us to do.  Many said -

"You don't like having hangers dropped, stop whining and kill the ord."

Now we are killing the ord and you guys are crying.  Like I said change the Bomber mantra from FHrs first to VH and City first and you will see ord porking stop by people such as myself.  Like I have said in the past, if you heros want the base and you come prepared to take it, fine.  But dropping hangers just cause you see a fight will make me kill ord every time.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2006, 04:22:43 PM by mars01 »

Offline LePaul

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Please fix the rampant Ordinance Porking
« Reply #104 on: June 08, 2006, 04:23:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Elfie
Ords has a 2 hour rebuild time. Each load of supplies takes 15 minutes off that time. If only one person is running supplies it wont take a full 8 loads to resupply a base simply because of the time you spend running those supplies to the field, the clock on the rebuild time is still counting down while you are flying your C-47 or driving your M-3 to the field.


An idea...reduce the down time?