Author Topic: UN wants more respect from US  (Read 2075 times)

Offline Holden McGroin

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8591
UN wants more respect from US
« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2006, 01:18:54 PM »
Can anyone link to a statement by anyone in the run-up to the Iraq invasion who said "Iraq does not have WMD".

Seems to me that those who argued against invasion argued for continuing inspection regimin.

So when we came up empty just who was right and what were they right about?
Holden McGroin LLC makes every effort to provide accurate and complete information. Since humor, irony, and keen insight may be foreign to some readers, no warranty, expressed or implied is offered. Re-writing this disclaimer cost me big bucks at the lawyer’s office!

Offline Shifty

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9377
      • 307th FS
UN wants more respect from US
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2006, 01:23:08 PM »
WTFG Goomba!:aok

JG-11"Black Hearts"...nur die Stolzen, nur die Starken

"Haji may have blown my legs off but I'm still a stud"~ SPC Thomas Vandeventer Delta1/5 1st CAV

Offline Elfie

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6143
UN wants more respect from US
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2006, 01:24:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Can anyone link to a statement by anyone in the run-up to the Iraq invasion who said "Iraq does not have WMD".

Seems to me that those who argued against invasion argued for continuing inspection regimin.

So when we came up empty just who was right and what were they right about?


I am to lazy to look up any links atm. However, as I recall it (could be wrong here) intially Europe (generally speaking) wanted to continue with the inspections, then just before the actual invasion they changed their tune to there are no WMD's.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Hangtime

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10148
UN wants more respect from US
« Reply #48 on: June 08, 2006, 01:28:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen
I thought you knew by now Hangtime. I am a eurotard so naturally I hate america and love France and UN.


Actually, I thought you were a Norwegian.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Nilsen

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18108
UN wants more respect from US
« Reply #49 on: June 08, 2006, 01:30:48 PM »
Hamburger is filthy capitalist food!


:D


I really doubt there are anyone on this board that could not have a beer or 10 with any other member and not have an excellent time (or atleast a high quality barfight with the compulsory make-up drink and breakfast at the nearest motel) ;)

Offline Nilsen

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18108
UN wants more respect from US
« Reply #50 on: June 08, 2006, 01:32:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
Actually, I thought you were a Norwegian.


Im just backing up Saintaw :)

Offline Stringer

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1610
UN wants more respect from US
« Reply #51 on: June 08, 2006, 01:36:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Can anyone link to a statement by anyone in the run-up to the Iraq invasion who said "Iraq does not have WMD".

Seems to me that those who argued against invasion argued for continuing inspection regimin.

So when we came up empty just who was right and what were they right about?


Not quite what you're looking for but close.....

"The study, a quarterly report on Iraq from U.N. inspectors, notes that the U.S. teams' inability to find any weapons after the war mirrors the experience of U.N. inspectors who searched there from November 2002 until March 2003.

Many Bush administration officials were harshly critical of the U.N. inspection efforts in the months before the war. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said in August 2002 that inspections "will be a sham."

The Bush administration also pointedly declined U.N. offers to help in the postwar weapons hunt, preferring instead to use U.S. inspectors and specialists from other coalition countries such as Britain and Australia.

But U.N. reports submitted to the Security Council before the war by Hans Blix, former chief U.N. arms inspector, and Mohamed ElBaradei, head of the U.N.'s nuclear watchdog agency, have been largely validated by U.S. weapons teams. The common findings:

Iraq's nuclear weapons program was dormant."

From this article: http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-03-02-un-wmd_x.htm

I've never heard of this source before, but a couple of points in this article are ironic

Link: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7049.htm

Irony #1:

"With their report last week, the inspectors appointed by the Bush administration to search Iraq for weapons of mass destruction have had to acknowledge that the reality on the ground was totally different from the virtual reality that had been spun.

Both Charles Duelfer, head of the Iraq Survey Group, and David Kay, his predecessor, were hawks who favoured the Iraq war. But while they try to give the administration some straws to cling to, they are professionals. After inspecting many sites, examining the voluminous documentation that has become available and interviewing many individuals, including Saddam Hussein and others in detention, they admit that the spin, to which they themselves had gladly contributed, was wrong"

Irony #2

"Like the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), Duelfer's group sees not a trace of revival of a nuclear programme. On the contrary, he says Iraq was further away from a nuclear weapon in 2003 than it was in 1991. It had not used the period between 1999 and 2002, when there were no inspections, for any revival. Thus, while George Bush has been maintaining that Saddam was a "growing threat" he was a diminishing danger to his neighbours and the world."

Irony #3

"Bush has been stressing that Saddam hated the US. However, Duelfer says that Saddam's interest in WMD seems to have been driven by concerns about Iran and Israel."
« Last Edit: June 08, 2006, 01:43:25 PM by Stringer »

Offline Hangtime

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10148
UN wants more respect from US
« Reply #52 on: June 08, 2006, 01:39:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen
Im just backing up Saintaw :)


LOL.. like he ever needed help. Saw's got a better brain than either of us. ;)

FWIW, I'm pretty sure Goomba was mopping up the floor with Momus.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Goomba

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 331
UN wants more respect from US
« Reply #53 on: June 08, 2006, 01:40:38 PM »
Quote
I really doubt there are anyone on this board that could not have a beer or 10 with any other member and not have an excellent time (or atleast a high quality barfight with the compulsory make-up drink and breakfast at the nearest motel)


I agree completely....you capitalist, stock-trading, hamburger-eating Norseman, you. :D

Oh, yeah...and lutefisk smells funny!  So there!

(^^This is an attempt at friendly banter, without the benefit of body language or a smile. )

Offline Goomba

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 331
UN wants more respect from US
« Reply #54 on: June 08, 2006, 01:42:24 PM »
Quote
FWIW, I'm pretty sure Goomba was mopping up the floor with Momus.


I name no names, my friend.  I'll try to stick to abusing ideas, and let the rest sort itself out.


Offline mtndog

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 49
UN wants more respect from US
« Reply #55 on: June 08, 2006, 01:44:09 PM »
well said Goomba:aok



mtndog

Offline Brenjen

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1514
UN wants more respect from US
« Reply #56 on: June 08, 2006, 01:47:06 PM »
Quote
Anyway, it strikes me how pitifully transparent this upsurge in anti-UN sentiments is, coinciding as it did with the refusal of the UNSC to endorse George and Dick's bogus Iraqi adventure back in 2003 and the resultant new-right propganda/disinfo onslaught.


 Then you know little of the long term disgust the people in the U.S. have had for the U.N.

 Your post is just a Bush bash & the point of my post couldn't have been much clearer.....hell it was one sentence.

Offline Nilsen

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18108
UN wants more respect from US
« Reply #57 on: June 08, 2006, 01:55:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Goomba
I agree completely....you capitalist, stock-trading, hamburger-eating Norseman, you. :D

Oh, yeah...and lutefisk smells funny!  So there!

(^^This is an attempt at friendly banter, without the benefit of body language or a smile. )


Body language from you would not be beneficial so thank cod the BBS does not have that feature ;)


hehehe

Offline Brenjen

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1514
UN wants more respect from US
« Reply #58 on: June 08, 2006, 02:13:50 PM »
I view the U.N. as a part of this one world govt. idea, or the New World Order. I don't like that idea, in fact I hate that idea & believe we should fight it with every fiber of our being. It may well be a brainchild of the U.S. but I fear the U.N. was just the first stab at it. I want No U.N. & No New World Order!


 Also on the point of WMD's, I seem to recall the Iraqi govt. stalling U.N. inspectors for hours at gunpoint in the front of buildings they were trying to inspect while driving trucks with tarped loads out the back.

 When did we as humans throw reasonable common sense out the window to chase political correctness?

  Here's all the "proof" I need;

 They found mobile chemical/biological weapon factories that had been cleaned up & abandoned (it was reported in the free press, A.P. carried the story)

 They have found chemical artillery shells buried in the desert & in wharehouses ( not many, but WMD's none the less )

 They (the Iraqi govt.) used chemical weapons on more than one occasion; I think that their repeated use of them was enough evidence that they had them & they had the knowledge to obtain more.

 The fact that they hated the U.S. & directly sponsored terrorism (they didn't hide the fact that they paid suicide bombers in Israel) was enough for me to view them as a threat to our security.

Offline Momus--

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 651
UN wants more respect from US
« Reply #59 on: June 08, 2006, 02:14:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Uh, just a nit, but Momus, you keep saying, you and your.  We are just as much pawns here as anyone.  We have no say in what our politicians say or do, once they get into office.  Just clarifying that a bit.

The only ones who can provoke a change in what our politicians say or do, is the media, and the very rich.

So please do not lump us into that mess.

And if you chose to blame us as we elected the policians currently in office, you would be mssing one point.  No matter who we elect, they will do whatever fits thier agenda.  So much for checks and balances.

And before you (the collective version) tell me we have recourse.  Know this.  I have done my part in trying to get things changed.  Have you (general question aimed at no one in particular)?


Agree 100% Skuzzy. I don't believe the man on the street in the USA has any more power over these type of events any more than the man on the street in London or Paris or Madrid does; i.e not a lot. Glad we can get that straight.

Elfie, you are correct in that Operation Ajax was British inspired and that we shoulder a share of the blame for those events and the some of the consequences. The Uk has however to a certain extent made efforts to improve relations with Iran in recent years and the fact remains that the US holds all the aces in normalizing releations with Iran, something which it has singularly failed to do so far. Fell free to answer any other of my points though.

Goomba,  I seriously doubt that any reasonable person feels the way regarding the USA that you portray., so get down off that cross you've constructed for yourself..

Quote
If we get involved, we're wrong. If we stay out of it, we're wrong. If we give, we're manipulative. If we take, we're greedy.

When we speak, we're conquering Imperialists. When we keep silent, we're isolationist and callous.

You're going have to talk specifics to make any sense of the above statements otherwise they'll just remain obvious straw men.

Quote
We're accused of being on a mission to destroy all local cultural heritage, and turn everyone into lily-white American robots. The fact that our cultural influences (movies, literature, books, attitudes, whatever) can only propagate when individuals make a conscious decision to buy, read, watch or adopt is actually an insidious form of mass-hypnosis and mind control...not choice. Repeat after me...It's all our fault...it's all our fault


Really? Who says that? And what does it have to do with the UN? And why do you keep setting up whiny straw men instead of addressing specific issues?

Quote
It was the US that arbitrarily carved up the Middle East after World War I, with callous disregard for thousands of years of tribal tradition and cultural influence, and set the stage for decades of renewed violence and discord, not Britain.


You might want to go away and read up on the Paris Peace conference then, because the US was party to all the decisions on the middle-east following WW1. Also, you're repeating a common fallacy when you attribute middle-east  boundaries to Imperial Britain; in fact these were largely due to the Ottoman Turks.

Quote
Anyone who lives in NYC knows how abusive and corrupt UN diplomats are...they flaunt the law with impunity, and laugh right in your face while they do it. I speak from personal experience.


Get this. Diplomats all over the world flaunt the law with impunity in their host countries; it's a fact of life.

Quote
The UN is an idea with merit and value in a truly cooperative world society. However, the institution today is truly no more than the worlds biggest, most organised party planner. The money paid to these flocks of unproductive, ineffective 'career diplomats' is outrageous...but that's just vicious, self-serving American propaganda.


The real propaganda is that since 2002 your leaders have been wont to disregard the UN's many achievements and instead draw disproportionate attention to relatively few shortcomings. It's a move straight out of the PNAC playbook, JUST LIKE the trumped up pretexts for the invasion of Iraq were. No-one suggests it doesn't need reform; my problem is that I can point out several ways the US has tried to undermine the UN but I can't think of any occasions on which it has seriously promoted reform other than to play to the peanut gallery back home; can you?