Author Topic: Tell the truth...  (Read 2141 times)

Offline Toad

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Tell the truth...
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2000, 04:51:00 PM »
Bush is Tweedledum.

Gore is Tweedledummer.

Bush says he wants the government to stay out of my life as much as possible.

Gore says he wants the government to meddle in my life as much as possible.

Easy, Easy choice.

Down through the ages, the wise men have always known it....and tried to tell us.

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it.

-Thomas Jefferson (1791)
 

One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation.

-Thomas B. Reed (1886)

 

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.

-William Pitt (1783)

I heartily accept the motto’ "That government is best which governs least".

-Henry David Thoreau  

The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates.

-Tacitus
 
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed—and hence clamorous to be led to safety—by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

-H.L. Mencken

The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.

-Robert A. Heinlein


More laws, less justice.

-Marcus Tullius Ciceroca (42 B.C.)


The true danger is when Liberty is nibbled away, for expedients.

-Edmund Burke (1899)


The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding. (Man, that describes Gore to me!)

-Louis Brandeis (1928)


If you have been voting for politicians who promise to give you goodies at someone else’s expense, then you have no right to complain when they take your money and give it to someone else, including themselves.

-Thomas Sowell (1992)


Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.

-Daniel Webster
 

Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself.   Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others?

-Thomas Jefferson (1801)

 
A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned.   This is the sum of good government.

-Thomas Jefferson


The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.

-H.L. Mencken

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber barons cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

-C. S. Lewis

 
I believe that every individual is naturally entitled to do as he pleases with himself and the fruits of his labor, so far as it in no way interferes with any other men’s rights.

-Abraham Lincoln

Edit

Liberty has never come from the government. Liberty has always come from the subjects of government. The history of liberty is the history of resistance. The history of liberty is a history of the limitation of governmental power, not the increase of it.
-Woodrow Wilson  (I forgot one.    )

Vote.

 

 



[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 10-30-2000).]
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Eagler

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Tell the truth...
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2000, 06:50:00 PM »
WTG Toad!

Toad for President  

Eagler
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Offline StSanta

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« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2000, 08:00:00 PM »
Man, I am getting sick and tired of the same old same old preaching to the choir.

Am I gonna be glad when the yanks have chosen their next pres? Sure; it'll decrease the yank ethnocentricity on this board by 50%.

 

I would still vote for Duma.

------------------
StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2000, 09:19:00 PM »
Toad you for got one.

"If you are a part of a society that votes, then do so. There may be no candidates and no measures you want to for for ... but there are certain to be ones you want to vote against. In case of doubt, vote against. By this rule you will rarely go wrong.

If this is too blind for your taste. consult some well-meaning fool (there is always one around) and ask his advice. Then vote the other way. This enables you to be a good citizen (if such is your wish) without spending the enormous amount of time on it that truly intelligent exercise of franchise requires."

Robert Heinlein

Mav
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Author Unknown

Offline Dinger

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« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2000, 11:57:00 PM »
Appeals to the authority of a science fiction author are not going to sway anybody.

How about this:
By voting you implicitly declare the political system (in the amurrican case, the income tax- and special interest-perpetuated two-party system) to be legitimate.  By withholding your vote, you deny to both parties (which are hardly different anyway) your consent.
As it stands, you're basically voting for whether you want it with vaseline or KY.

Offline Hajo

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« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2000, 12:42:00 AM »
Alas......tis a sad state of affairs in the US when all we have to chose from for a president is Al Gore, and George Bush.  When younger, I bet when they were choosing sides for a neighborhood baseball game these two dweebs were picked last... and this statment comes from a registered Republican, me.  seems like we are either voting for Moe or Larry, I think I'll abstain, like Curly.  appears to be the same ole same ole in gridlocked US politics.
- The Flying Circus -

Offline Naso

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« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2000, 01:48:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Dinger:
Appeals to the authority of a science fiction author are not going to sway anybody.

How about this:
By voting you implicitly declare the political system (in the amurrican case, the income tax- and special interest-perpetuated two-party system) to be legitimate.  By withholding your vote, you deny to both parties (which are hardly different anyway) your consent.

Yes Dinger, correct.

 
Quote
As it stands, you're basically voting for whether you want it with vaseline or KY.

LOL, and this is more correct than the one above.  

Seem some of you amurricans   is learning from our experience in political sexology.  

 

Offline Thrax

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« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2000, 02:30:00 AM »
Fact Every new US President for the past 20+ years has managed to get himself embroiled in a fresh military conflict. Usually with a lesser degree of sucess

Carter : Iran. Resounding disaster.

Reagan : Panama. A total military blunder, that didn't turn into a debacle when the locals helped pull the US servicemen out of the mud they were landed on.
Granada. A victory, if you can call the capture of a virtually undefended 3rd world ireland a victory.

Bush: Kuwait. Had the slight advantage of having the world virtually united and supplying troops too.
Somalia: A balls-up of Epic proportions.

Clinton: Former Yugoslavia. More of a NATO than a US only opp. Also probably the campaign with the longest delays in getting the troops in for fear of casulties (applies to all countries in this opp.)

So which war is Bush/Gore going to dive head-first into? The law of averages says it will happen....

Thrax


Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2000, 02:37:00 AM »
Hi

Can I vote for someone else, please, please?
Either way well have an unremarkable president.  

thanks GRUNHERZ



Offline Dowding

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« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2000, 05:56:00 AM »
oops

[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 10-31-2000).]
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2000, 06:01:00 AM »
   
Quote
Originally posted by Thrax:
Fact: Every new US President for the past 20+ years has managed to get himself embroiled in a fresh military conflict. Usually with a lesser degree of success

Bush: Kuwait. Had the slight advantage of having the world virtually united and supplying troops too.
Somalia: A balls-up of Epic proportions.

Clinton: Former Yugoslavia. More of a NATO than a US only opp. Also probably the campaign with the longest delays in getting the troops in for fear of casualties (applies to all countries in this opp.)


Wasn't Somalia Clinton's blunder? See below:

MORE ON CLINTON AND THE MILITARY - Part 1

Lt. Colonel Thomas McKenney (retired)
11-25-97 McKenney; comments by Doug from Upland


Lt. Colonel McKenney wrote a chapter for THE CLINTON CHRONICLES Book. In this part are some of his comments regarding the tragedy in Somalia in which brave Rangers died needlessly.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Any of those Rangers could have told that gathering of politicians that armored vehicle support in such an operation is a must; but the politicians didn't know that, and refused to listen to those who did.

Retired Army Captain James H. Smith, the father of Corporal Jamie Smith, himself a disabled veteran in infantry combat in Vietnam, told a May 27 press conference in Washington, that the disaster was the result not only of Clinton's ignorance of military matters, but also of the same ignorance by his top advisers.

The late Colonel Charlie Beckwith, perhaps the leading authority on such military operations agreed, saying that the deadly failures to properly utilize and support the Rangers were all inflicted "by civilian leadership."

Concerning the Mogadishu disaster, Beckwith wrote in The Wall Street Journal that the raid was bungled by committing the Rangers and Delta Force without giving them the freedom and the support they needed.

Captain James H. Smith, lays the blame for the death of his son directly at the door of the White House. In summarizing the disaster, he bluntly states that his son's death had served no purpose, and that "the Rangers had been betrayed---denied proper combat support, and with unreliable U.N. allies, disaster was preordained."

Retired Army Lt. Colonel Larry Joyce, also a veteran of combat in Vietnam and father of Sergeant Casey Joyce, agreed with Captain Smith and said that the dead soldiers were "betrayed by an administration that gave them a no-win mission and didn't provide them with the resources and the support they desperately needed."

Major General Garrison, commander of the Ranger Task Force, when asked by Senator William S. Cohen (R-Maine) whether lives would have been saved if the armored vehicles had been provided, answered, "I am absolutely certain that would have been the case." Eventually, after Clinton had sat on the paper work for eight weeks, two of the slain soldiers, Master Sergeant Gary Gordon and Sergeant First Class Randall Shughart, were posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor. As usual in such cases, the medals were presented to the next of kin.

Following the May 23 presentation at the White House, the families of the two men were invited into the Oval Office for a private visit with Clinton. Inside the office, the father of Sergeant Shughart refused to shake Clinton's hand, then looked him in the face and calmly told him that he was responsible for his son's death, that it was for no purpose, that he was not fit to be President, and not fit to be Commander in Chief.

Clinton was visibly shocked, amazed, and momentarily speechless. It was revealing that he was surprised that the man should feel that way. Clinton really doesn't think the way most people do, seeming to lack a sense of personal responsibility. After a brief, awkward silence, Clinton caught his breath. Becoming angry, he turned to the mother of the dead hero and said, "What's he jumping on me for? I didn't kill the kid!"

(A few paragraphs later...)
But in speaking to the parents he went even further outdoing himself, placing at least part of the blame on the sacrificed soldiers themselves. In perhaps the most unbelievably insensitive, outrageous thing a president ever said, Clinton told those grieving parents of the fallen Rangers that the Rangers themselves may have been responsible for their own deaths by being "too aggressive."

Yep, most Presidents find a war.

Good Presidents don't cut the military, use them as a global police force for political gains/distractions and then find a war. Does the occasional cruise missile launched here and there count as a war? The poor s.o.b it lands on I think would think so. How many of those has slick willie popped off?

Truth be told, without the US, there would not be a free world as the rest of the "free" countries combined do not equal the US military or resources. They need us to play cop as they can't /won't do it themselves.

Eagler



[This message has been edited by Eagler (edited 10-31-2000).]
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Offline Dowding

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« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2000, 06:06:00 AM »
What's with the infatuation with Heinlein - why are people hailing him as some great philosophical mind? I've read some of books and I wouldn't call him a literary giant by any means - he's run of the mill, to be honest.

I used to like science fiction, but then I grew up and discovered REAL literature.  

Besides, I think Wells has never been bettered in terms of creative writing.

Oh, BTW, Star Trek (except maybe the Next Gen.) is crap.  

 
Quote
Truth be told, without the US, there would not be a free world as the rest of the "free" countries combined do not equal the US military or resources.

Economically, a fully integrated Europe has a population and economy to rival the US. Militarily, a similar situation exists. The question is, do we Europeans want a fully integrated Europe?

[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 10-31-2000).]
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Mighty1

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« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2000, 07:45:00 AM »
Karnak I never meant to imply that YOU were lying I was just saying that Gore has a habit of trying to cover up a lie with a lie.

And as far as being on the Bush band wagon well...Like I've said before I don't like either one of them but I think I've seen enough of Gore to say I would like to try someone new.
I have been reborn a new man!

Notice I never said a better man.

Offline Thrax

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« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2000, 07:55:00 AM »
there would not be a free world as the rest of the "free" countries combined do not equal the US military or resources.


Thats such a pig ignorant, arrogent and also factually flawed answer, it's on a par with the old chiche "America Won WWII Single-handidly" . Utter toejame.

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2000, 07:57:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Thrax:
there would not be a free world as the rest of the "free" countries combined do not equal the US military or resources.


Thats such a pig ignorant, arrogent and also factually flawed answer, it's on a par with the old chiche "America Won WWII Single-handidly" . Utter toejame.


Thank You  

Eagler

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