Author Topic: Iraq Casualties Study  (Read 1499 times)

Offline Yeager

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Iraq Casualties Study
« on: June 21, 2006, 11:04:44 AM »
Was searching for some data and came across a interesting site.  I share with mongo:

http://icasualties.org/oif/

Many many good men and women are being wounded and killed in Iraq, is this just an opening operation into the great war about to engulf civilization, or is this the war that prevents it?

It is either one or the other.
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Offline Brenjen

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Iraq Casualties Study
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2006, 11:43:27 AM »
Can't it be an equal percentage of both? I have felt the attacks on 9-11 were the begining of WWIII. We should not back down even if it becomes nation vs. nation to root out the ideaology of terrorism & radical islam.

 They want a holy war to decide once and for all if the jews & christians have a right to exist, they have it. If that alienates long time allies of the U.S. so be it; anytime one of our allies has needed us we were there & gave whatever it took to help them including our blood.

 President Bush spelled it out clearly, "you're either with us or against us."

 I agree with the president, there is no middle ground in this fight. I am thankful for the help in Afghanistan by many of our allies; but if they choose to leave & let us stand alone, we can. We have not even begun to draw upon the massive reserves of men, supplies & industrial might of this country - woe unto you that want to destroy us, "they sow the wind & reap the whirlwind"

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2006, 12:18:42 PM »
Problem is, the presidents rehtoric is not the US policy.

Negotiating with Iran and Korea are prime examples. The ungoverned territory of pakistan is another.

Where's the fleets? The embargos? The Draft? The wage and price controls?

Fact is, the magnitude of the war is perfect for corporate profits.. gas prices have doubled. Corporate Profits and government no-bid contracts are at an all time high. Corruption and greed abounds.. national will is gone; 2500 american kids dead, 8500 wounded and no end in sight.

And every day dawns with our kids getting sent out to play "i'm todays IED target".

We got lotsa political spin coming outta the whitehouse. As for Political will and the might of the nation bent to the task.. that is sorely lacking.

It's another BS Forever 'War'.... this one taylor made to suck the profits for administration cronies.

I say ramp it up to whatever it takes to win.. or get our kids the hell outta there.

NOW.
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Offline Maverick

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Iraq Casualties Study
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2006, 12:35:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime

I say ramp it up to whatever it takes to win.. or get our kids the hell outta there.

NOW.


This is a rather simplistic concept that really has nothing to do with a low intensity conflict. Unless you have strategy that is yet undiscovered in the last, say 250 years, to make this happen. Please expound and enlighten us on it.

If your idea is to simply pull a USSR solution I have a bit of a problem with that concept and I think most of the rest of the country would as well.
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Offline Yeager

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« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2006, 12:39:43 PM »
its low intensity now.  when 10,000 americans are gassed in the NY subway system I rather like to think the troops come out and the middle east is vaporized.  Its either that or surrender, praise be to allah.
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Offline Dos Equis

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« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2006, 12:39:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Brenjen
Can't it be an equal percentage of both? I have felt the attacks on 9-11 were the begining of WWIII. We should not back down even if it becomes nation vs. nation to root out the ideaology of terrorism & radical islam.

 They want a holy war to decide once and for all if the jews & christians have a right to exist, they have it. If that alienates long time allies of the U.S. so be it; anytime one of our allies has needed us we were there & gave whatever it took to help them including our blood.
 


If you make it into a new Crusade, you've already lost. There are millions of Muslims and other non-Christian US citizens. Freedom of religion, remember that?

You're just being baited. This isn't a war about religion, and don't let it become one. It's war about hegenomy. The reason that Iraq and Iran are disenfranchised members of the world community is because they made all the wrong choices. They overthrew the Shah in the late 1970s and preferred to revert to the dark ages. They could have been like India is now. India has 83,000 millionaires living there. They are taking jobs from Microsoft, Dell and Cisco and putting them there. That could have been Iran. They chose religious extremeism, they only have oil to sustain that outlook. Otherwise, they'd be North Korea and have to starve the population. Only the oil economy keeps them in line, Iran wants to westernize badly. All the signs are there.

No, make it about getting rid of the religious zealots. To do that, we need to marginalize all of ours. No more Pat Robertson getting to be on tv saying he talks to God and Jesus told him we should assassinate Chavez in Venezuela. Robertson, Falwell and the religious right are nuts. Rockerfeller Republicans need to take their party back from people like that.

This is about captalism. About free societies where business can move along. These extremeists use religion as a tool to get kids to become suicide bombers for them. I bet they don't even believe it themselves at the top levels. Bin Laden was a playboy with a Bentley before he went extreme. He knew he had to wrap himself in the guise of religous zealtry to get the job done. Unmask him for what he is. A bull**** Muslim version of a televangilist. Trying to keep his people in the dark ages, because he's on a ego trip.

Let's move in and take the oil from them. They say "this is our land, the West has no right to take our oil". Sorry, that's not how we play the game. These regimes forfeit their sovergnity once they embrace terrorism. Now we move in and take what we want and push them to the edge. Europeans did it to the native americans. Clash of cultures, and the more progressive technologically advanced culture wins. So, let's get on with it and get gas prices down.

Offline john9001

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« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2006, 12:44:34 PM »
stop calling them "kids" they are full grown men and women who have been trained and equipped to fight a war, and thats what they are doing.

Offline Yeager

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« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2006, 12:45:23 PM »
I agree with Dos Equis, now tell me your not nash in shades :cool:
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2006, 12:51:56 PM »
Given the information freely provided by the oposition it does indeed seem like it is a war of religious concepts and bias. The fact that both sides may not agree with that premise, (well it IS a war after all they don't HAVE to get along or agree by definition) is immaterial. If the side that claims God can convince non participants of their claim then they have a victory in their conflict of words and concepts. Truth is immaterial, victory in the conflict is all that is relevent in that case.
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Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2006, 01:42:15 PM »
There's no way win in a 'low intensity' conflict, religious or otherwize.

and THATS material to the discussion.

Again.. ramp it up, win it and leave, or keep sending kids out to die for corporate profits.

If we forced the administration and congress to saddle up and deploy to Iraq to fight along side our young men and women this 'low intensity conflict' would be over in 10 days.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Dos Equis

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« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2006, 02:03:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
I agree with Dos Equis, now tell me your not nash in shades :cool:


Nope. Original member of the Flying Pigs since '95. Stood up in Eagl's wedding party. I have witnesses.

Athiest (Agnostic actually) who thinks religion is not just the opiate of the masses - it's the real root of all evil, not money. Realist, progressive - socially liberal (who understands how Tories used the word liberal) who thinks the Republicans have been hijacked and the Democrats are too stupid to win. Wonders where all the good democrats like Sam Nunn went.  

Hates corporate corruption and thinks a law like SoX actually might work. Usually gets labelled as an extreme liberal when talking social or domestic issues, and usually gets labelled as a far-right wacko or crypto-fascist when talking about foreign policy. In 1780, I would have had a home with the federalists. The presidency should be decided by popular vote. Corporations have replaced states, and the electoral system should be abandoned. We should adopt the German system of courts and abolish juries, leaving all trials to be decided by judges.

Believes that when the president says "there is scientific consensus that global warming exists, the debate is over", maybe somebody should listen to him. Darwinism debate is over as well, anybody who would revisitthe Scopes monkey trial is an abject idiot and should be ignored.

As other Flying Pigs have pointed out, I am the least electable human being in modern history. My platform would piss nearly every single constituency off in some fundamental way. When DoK GonZo tells you you're good at being an *******, you know you've set the bar a bit higher. Irish American parents, so imagine Dennis Leary but even more combative. As somebody pointed out - I went so far to the right that I wrapped around the spectrum. I want government in people's lives.

I doubt I line up with Nash in too many areas. Even Eagl thinks I'm off my rocker, but is enough of a libertarian to at least meet me part way.

Offline Maverick

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Iraq Casualties Study
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2006, 04:43:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
There's no way win in a 'low intensity' conflict, religious or otherwize.

and THATS material to the discussion.

Again.. ramp it up, win it and leave, or keep sending kids out to die for corporate profits.

If we forced the administration and congress to saddle up and deploy to Iraq to fight along side our young men and women this 'low intensity conflict' would be over in 10 days.


Ok lets look at this post here. You say there is no way to win, so how are you going to "ramp it up" and how would that make it any different?

Exactly how are you considering to "ramp it up"? Who or what is the target then? Do you have any particular tactic, or on a larger scale strategic method? Drop the politicians fighting bit, we both know it's a nonsense statement.

As to your position that there is no way to win a low intensity conflict, can you specify why you believe that? To my knowledge simply out lasting the opposition can affect a victory or defeat there could it not? Even if you want to postulate Viet Nam as an example, there was a cessation of the conflict and on terms favorable to the US. The fact that the other side decided to violate the terms of the treaty later on does not change the fact that the conflict had ended any more than Germany reinvading Europe changed the fact that WW1 had ended.

I'm not trying to flame you. I just want you to explain what the hell you mean and how you mean for it to happen.
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Offline Edbert1

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Re: Iraq Casualties Study
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2006, 05:39:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
is this just an opening operation into the great war about to engulf civilization, or is this the war that prevents it?

Too early to tell, we probably wont know for anohter 3-5 years.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2006, 05:42:10 PM by Edbert1 »

Offline Gryffin

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« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2006, 05:44:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dos Equis


Well said

Offline ~Caligula~

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« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2006, 10:16:02 PM »
Quote
You say there is no way to win, so how are you going to "ramp it up" and how would that make it any different?


He wants to nuke `em.