Author Topic: Repub states "A free press undermines our country"  (Read 3012 times)

Offline Hangtime

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2006, 06:31:46 PM »
it's not like the president gives a happy **** about what the soccer moms or daytrader dads think.
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Offline Nash

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2006, 06:48:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Oh quit making so much sense! Can't you see there is a good "Chicken Little The Sky is falling!" rant going on? ;)


He's not making sense, Ripsnort.

He bases his a huge chunk of his argument on the fact that there's no law against the mining and selling of personal data by the phone record brokers et al.... and so everything must be peachy.

That's not exactly the case.

When it was discovered how easy it was to buy someone's personal information, the public was outraged, and it led to intense scrutiny by Congress. Legislation was drafted to make it illegal, which had overwhelming and unanimous bipartisan support.

But then a funny thing happened. The day they were supposed to debate on it, USA Today reported that Bush was using AT&T and other phone companies to spy on Americans.

And guess what happened to that piece of legislation that would have made mining and selling personal data illegal? The administration put its foot down and it disappeared.

Not long afterwards, it was discovered that the Administration itself was purchasing this personal information. It just wouldn't do to have that kind of thing outlawed.

And here we are with yet another example of Congress sitting on its hands in order that Bush get away with any damned thing he pleases. Bush is King, and the Republican controlled Congress are his jesters.

Lashing out at the free press for having the audacity to report on the King's misdeeds is just par for the course with these guys.

Offline Bruno

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2006, 06:50:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Does anyone honestly think it was news to the terrorists that we were watching their money?

LOL


The 'press' censors itself over many issues. For example, choosing not to disclose a rape victims name or not detailing things like 'how to make bombs or weapons'. The thing about the NY Times report is that it doesn't just say 'US government is watching terrorist finances', everyone knows that. The NY Times gives details describing how the government does it. There's difference between saying 'a truck bomb detonated outside the federal building' and then saying 'a bomb constructed from 94/6 ANFO, detail, detail, and detail...'

Now I don't think that NY Times report will end up in 'lives lost' or any such nonsense but there are some things that the press is not obligated to report. A newspaper editor should not be the sole decider of what constitutes 'news' any more then the government.

It's this type of thing that leads to more 'censorship' in the long run. Editors have a responsibility in making sure that what ever information they release as 'news'  doesn't conflict with the peoples right to security and the Federal governments responsibility to provide that security.

I don't know was so 'news worthy' about the NY Times report...

Offline Ripsnort

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2006, 07:00:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
He's not making sense, Ripsnort.

He bases his a huge chunk of his argument on the fact that there's no law against the mining and selling of personal data by the phone record brokers et al.... and so everything must be peachy.

That's not exactly the case.

When it was discovered how easy it was to buy someone's personal information, the public was outraged, and it led to intense scrutiny by Congress. Legislation was drafted to make it illegal, which had overwhelming and unanimous bipartisan support.

But then a funny thing happened. The day they were supposed to debate on it, USA Today reported that Bush was using AT&T and other phone companies to spy on Americans.

And guess what happened to that piece of legislation that would have made mining and selling personal data illegal? The administration put its foot down and it disappeared.

Not long afterwards, it was discovered that the Administration itself was purchasing this personal information. It just wouldn't do to have that kind of thing outlawed.

And here we are with yet another example of Congress sitting on its hands in order that Bush get away with any damned thing he pleases. Bush is King, and the Republican controlled Congress are his jesters.

Lashing out at the free press for having the audacity to report on the King's misdeeds is just par for the course with these guys.
Yer barking up the wrong tree, Nash.  It was I that said in October 2001:

Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Yep. And it includes ALL terrorist orgs, from IRA down to the Asian gangs running around in LA, this is MY opinion.  If it requires a police state, I have no problems in having my liberties limited to rid the world of these type of humans.

Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Incidently, this is exactly what I was speaking of in a thread two weeks ago where I said I would be willing to make sacrifices in a "police state" world, such as extra security at airports(longer waits), National Guard at major land marks, permission to wire tap in suspected terrorist cases, and now, this.


I still feel that way today. National security first.  If the CIA feels its necessary to route these scum out via phone records and bank statements, so be it.

Offline Nash

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2006, 07:06:17 PM »
Well, I applaud your honesty, Ripsnort, if nothing else.

Btw., I truly applaud Hangtime's honesty in his post above. That's what the word "accountibility" looks like in action, when its not too busy being trotted out as a prop that never resembles the actions it's supposedly intended to cover.

storch

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2006, 07:20:50 PM »
because after the attacks on september 11, 2001 many people have been willing to hand over their rights for that "feeling" of security.  it's mainly the ladies that feel this way.  most males in our society have finally learned their place so consequently we are an estrogen fueled nation current.  men such as myself are a relic. ask rip if mrs rip takes the kids to soccer practice.  this is precisely what the majority response is, that and when you ask rip if his sons should join up to do a tour of service the answer is usually an emphatic NO.  it's ok if someone else's sons and daughters go in harm's way but not MINE!!!! what pathetic pampered suburbanites we have collectively become.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2006, 07:32:20 PM by storch »

Offline rpm

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2006, 07:21:34 PM »
Looks to me like the government needs to guard their "secrets" a little better. Just another half arsed job by this admin.
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Offline Maverick

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2006, 07:33:14 PM »
Aparently Reuters website has rotated the story. I don't see the article that has been quoted partially. Can someone do a cut and paste of the entire article?
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Offline Nash

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2006, 07:54:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
because after the attacks on september 11, 2001 many people have been willing to hand over their rights for that "feeling" of security.  it's mainly the ladies that feel this way.  most males in our society have finally learned their place so consequently we are an estrogen fueled nation current.  men such as myself are a relic. ask rip if mrs rip takes the kids to soccer practice.  this is precisely what the majority response is, that and when you ask rip if his sons should join up to do a tour of service the answer is usually an emphatic NO.  it's ok if someone else's sons and daughters go in harm's way but not MINE!!!! what pathetic pampered suburbanites we have collectively become.


You're running into an interesting dilemma here, storch.

Putting the blame on women for Bush and his disgraceful use of fear as a campaign tactic, resulting in a gradual police state and the daily assault on the Constitution and the Bill of Rights doesn't do you any favors, storch.

48 percent of women versus 55 percent of men voted to re-elect President Bush. So it was in fact the men who outnumbered the "ladies" in their support of Bush. Were you not one of them?

Why yes! Yes you were:

Quote
Originally posted by storch
20 years from now you'll be saying the same things about President Bush that you guys have said about President Reagan.  It's about time you guys grew up and voted accordingly. (circa 2004)


So, may I be so bold as to call you a "soccer dad" - and in fact blame you for this?

Offline Yeager

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2006, 07:58:16 PM »
My brain hurts.  Im going to go get a beer.......
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storch

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2006, 08:19:02 PM »
where did I say it was bush's fault?  it's the citizenry's fault.  it's perfectly natural for the government to grab for more power.  actually if I were to blame a president for our current state it would have to be Roosevelt followed by Johnson.

Offline Dos Equis

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2006, 08:20:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Goomba
According to this article, there is no such statement as the one you interpreted...


Also, as to the data mining arguement...when did you agree to let credit bureaus mine and archive your personal financial data?  When did you sign on to let them make thier own value judgement of you as a credit risk, then share that opinion with others, possibly to your detriment?  Where are the laws governing such behavior?  Where is the regulatory oversight?  


Wow, it's like teaching infants to walk around here.

You are kidding, right? No? Ok... let's begin...

Start here for banking...

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/index.php/Banking

Read about the Uniform Commercial Code. Have somebody explain the big words to you.

For creditors, see 15 USC 1601., the Consumer Credit Protection Act.

Even for somebody versed in banging straw men, you must realize the difference between that information which is public such as the deed to your property and the information about what kind of toothbruth you buy, right?

That there is no oversight of the guys in the basement of the NSA, who get to decide that the fact you bought a shotgun from Wal-Mart makes you a 'person of interest' or is worth a 3 outta 10 on the 'weirdo' scale. Surely, you must be able to see the issues behind something like that, right?

Maybe not. Several people have chimed in with the sadly compliant "if you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear" mantra. The call of the sheep. Who don't realize that being a reporter doing his job in this land has suddenly become 'doing something wrong'.

Offline Ripsnort

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2006, 08:24:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
because after the attacks on september 11, 2001 many people have been willing to hand over their rights for that "feeling" of security.  it's mainly the ladies that feel this way.  most males in our society have finally learned their place so consequently we are an estrogen fueled nation current.  men such as myself are a relic. ask rip if mrs rip takes the kids to soccer practice.  this is precisely what the majority response is, that and when you ask rip if his sons should join up to do a tour of service the answer is usually an emphatic NO.  it's ok if someone else's sons and daughters go in harm's way but not MINE!!!! what pathetic pampered suburbanites we have collectively become.
Nice broad paint brush you have there. However, the flaw I see is that it only paints in black and white.

Not that it will change your opinion, but my oldest son loves military history. His great grandfather served as a pilot in WW1. His grandfather was a staff sargent in the Korean conflict.  His step grandfather, whom we recently laid to rest in the Madison River in Ennis, MT had 2 bronze starts and 2 purple hearts in WW2.  He was fortunate to meet all but one of these men.  He feels very proud when he sees their pictures in uniform.  I only wish I had signed the paperwork at 18 when I intended to join the Airforce but was lured West by Boeing.

His plans are to serve for the United States, by no encouragement from me. I will tell him the same thing my father told me, follow your heart. If you want to go to college, I've set money aside for that...if you want to be a truck driver, I'll back you 100%.  If you want to serve your country, I'll hold my head high and proudly....

Edit: FWIW, Mrs. Rip doesn't take either boys to sports, but she comes to watch.  (She's too busy saving the lives of drug addcits who get free health care)  

I've coached Soccer, assisted coached baseball, and I've been a team photographer for every sport that both sons have been on since 2000 taking thousands of pictures for team member families. Have you ever had a son in football? Try spending 5 nights a week, 2 hours a practice, for 3.5 months every fall and see how you like the wind and the rain.  

I spend 90% of my free time with my sons. I do not watch TV and if I do, its either sports, outdoors channels, or history channel. Most nights after sports for 9 months out of the year is spent reading with my children and assisting them doing their homework. I loath men who sit on their arse and expect kids to get good grades.   School starts at HOME and finishes at school.  So you can take your soccer mom brush and stick it where you've obviously put your head many times before.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2006, 08:42:03 PM by Ripsnort »

Offline Nash

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2006, 08:30:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
where did I say it was bush's fault?  it's the citizenry's fault.  it's perfectly natural for the government to grab for more power.  actually if I were to blame a president for our current state it would have to be Roosevelt followed by Johnson.


Oh boy.

Bush goes Boy King bat**** and all of a sudden......

It's the soccer mom's fault. No wait, it's the citizenry's fault. Actually - hold that thought - it's Roosevelt and Johnson's fault!

In fact, it's everyone else's fault but your own, right? Everyone else's fault but the folks like you who got sucked in hook line and sinker and actually voted for this train wreck. That's remarkable! Do you know what kind of odds you're defying?

Remind me to buy you a beer next time I'm in town. You're one in a billion.

Offline Yeager

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2006, 08:42:40 PM »
I dont see a problem with hasterts comments.  Ignorant for sure, but like Schumer and Rangel, he has a right to be a totally assanine partisan congressman.

Its the larger picture that needs refreshing and I just dont see the same level or intensity of dimished rights as many liberal minded people express here.  I suspect its more a matter of partisan posturing than anything to do with genuine concern.  

I do keep my eyes and ears highly tuned to the proverbial railroad tracks.  You can bet that once the liberals regain power and start once again to try and rob me of my firearms rights, I will respond forcefully.

There are few other rights I care about, as long as I can blow a large hole through a bad guys center of mass, I dont care what happens.  I got it covered.

and yes, I vote...but I am a tiny single red dot in a massive discombobulated clusterphuck of blue dots so it isn't a big surprise my congressman and both my senators are bleeding heart liberals.  Such is life.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2006, 08:45:52 PM by Yeager »
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