Author Topic: Repub states "A free press undermines our country"  (Read 3084 times)

storch

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #60 on: June 29, 2006, 11:04:37 AM »
Hap!!! you well read fellow you, a fellow Boccaccio admirer

Offline Dos Equis

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #61 on: June 29, 2006, 11:35:10 AM »
Moreover, we find out that the LA Times and Wall Street Journal ran the exact same story.

Anderson Cooper had some GOP member on, and when he asked him why there was no motion on the floor to censure the Wall Street Journal, the guy totally ignored the question and went ad hominem against the Times again.

To Goomba -

Journalists are citizens. They have been empowered by their news organizations to dig up stories and report facts. Most major papers have a ethics posting on their website, and prior to the web - those creeds could be found in the lobby of the paper. Here is Gannett's: http://www.asne.org/ideas/codes/gannettcompany.htm

Let's say a young Woodward wannabe has a contact inside the beltway. A real deep throat kinda guy, like Felt was. Let's say this guy is getting a little unbalanced lately, and tells the reporter that there is going to be a major bust of a terror ring at some warehouse in some city. Should the reporter get the chopper ready and be right on scene so he can scoop it when the bust goes down? Of course not, information could change - he might accidently tip the terrorists off - it would be irresponsible for him to go do that. He could sit in his office and listen to the police scanner and roll once the messages started flying, however.

Your argument that nobody elected journalists, therefore they... what? Have no rights? What a journalistis defined as is blurry in this age of blogs, how far does that extend? Should the government be allowed to claim "state security" on everything, and have gag laws over anybody with access to the internet?

Journalists have lots of power. They could print that H1N5 has started jumping from human to human in New York and cause a mass panic. They have to weigh responsibl reporting every day. That's why the proliferation of the press, even though it's caused narrowcasting where journalists now have polictical affiliations and conservatives only listen to Fox News, is a good thing. More voices with access.

Your ideas that state security is the trump card in all situations is pretty scary. I'm sure some of the Russians in here might also thing that was scary.

Offline Dos Equis

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #62 on: June 29, 2006, 11:40:35 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DoctorYO
Boston Globe says this Swift information was the public domain...

Admin is being cornered on many levels...  they are popping smoke and mirrors..    Rule #1 in politics "whats the best defense..."

apply that statement to what your seeing on tv and you might get some understanding of whats going on..

DoctorYo



I love Tony Snow's answer about how al-queda didn't know about Swift. And then they showed Swift's own website and their mass circulated magazine that explains WITH EVEN MORE DETAIL THAN THE NYT PROVIDED, exactly how they get banks to turn over their information for searches.

Apparently, the insinuation from Tony Snow is - al-queda only reads the New York Times.

Also, the editor of the Times was on. They had LONG conversations about the piece with several administration officials. Nobody had a security concern with it, and WENT ON THE RECORD SAYING SO. The only comment that came back was that it might frighten some banks into wanting to work with Swift if there was public backlash.

And, then, of course the fact that the WSJ ran the same story.

This is just a GOP witch hunt against the Times. For all of you crying foul over Rush Limbaugh being "picked on", I'm wondering why I don't see you racing to the defense of the Times. Oh wait.... I know why.

Offline Hap

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #63 on: June 29, 2006, 11:54:44 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
a fellow Boccaccio admirer


suuusssh . . . . :noid

hap

was actually thinking of Tamburlaine.

Offline Red Tail 444

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #64 on: June 29, 2006, 11:59:13 AM »
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I only wish I had signed the paperwork at 18 when I intended to join the Airforce but was lured West by Boeing.
 


Ah....other priorities...:)

Offline Masherbrum

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #65 on: June 29, 2006, 12:03:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
because after the attacks on september 11, 2001 many people have been willing to hand over their rights for that "feeling" of security.  it's mainly the ladies that feel this way.  most males in our society have finally learned their place so consequently we are an estrogen fueled nation current.  men such as myself are a relic. ask rip if mrs rip takes the kids to soccer practice.  this is precisely what the majority response is, that and when you ask rip if his sons should join up to do a tour of service the answer is usually an emphatic NO.  it's ok if someone else's sons and daughters go in harm's way but not MINE!!!! what pathetic pampered suburbanites we have collectively become.


I count 4 generalizations in this.   Good job.
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Offline Hap

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #66 on: June 29, 2006, 12:03:50 PM »
In this matter, consequences abound.  

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0629/p01s02-uspo.html

A worthwhile summary.  


And, I'd rather see us err on the side on consitutional caution.

hap

storch

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #67 on: June 29, 2006, 12:06:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
I count 4 generalizations in this.   Good job.
I don't mind being generally right a great percentage of the time, generally speaking.

Offline Masherbrum

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #68 on: June 29, 2006, 12:10:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
I don't mind being generally right a great percentage of the time, generally speaking.


But yer wrong.  On 9/10 or 9/11 to now, we are still NOT "safe".   But the money train still is chugging along.
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Offline Goomba

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #69 on: June 29, 2006, 12:32:11 PM »
Creeds, ethics postings and mission statements are worth exactly nothing.


I never even suggested that journalists had no rights.  How could you derive that from my statements?
Quote
Journalists have lots of power. They could print that H1N5 has started jumping from human to human in New York and cause a mass panic. They have to weigh responsibl reporting every day.

Absolutely right.  You completely validate my point that there exists both responsible and irresponsible reporting.  Which is exactly what I said, isn't it?


Quote
Your ideas that state security is the trump card in all situations is pretty scary.

Excuse me?  I most specifically did NOT make any such suggestion, and I'll thank you not to twist my actual words, which were;

Quote
Please let's not reduce this to some simple counterpoint suggesting that I think the government can do as it pleases, and that I'll gladly give up my individual rights and freedoms to "get the bad guys". In fact, we need to take a considered look at each case, and try to understand that these matters are complex and difficult. Protecting our rights is critical...as is maintaining and securing the system that recognizes those rights. Sometimes, these principles can be necessarily at odds, hence, the complexities.

Once again...oversimplification of the issue is one of the root problems with discussing it.  This stuff is just NOT as black and white as some would like to make it.


Hap:

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Winning an election does not create knowledge, rectitude, wisdom, etc.

I agree with you completely.  In fact, it seems quite self-evident.  However, my actual point is that at least We the People had an opportunity, some input, into the choosing of legislators to represent our interests, and act on our behalf.  If they fail to do so to our satisfaction, who do we really have to blame?  Ourselves, and we vote another choice in to do the job.  

No reporter/editor, making independent, financially-driven decisions about what amounts to national security and what doesn't, was ever part of a process involving the implicit auspices and approval of the American public.

If the government we have elected must declare certain information as classified, we have to accept that that's a absolute necessity in the real world.  

If we discover that this power is being abused, we have recourse.  In the absence of illegality, abuse or corruption, printing classified information in the newspaper is a crime.

Offline Dos Equis

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #70 on: June 29, 2006, 12:44:45 PM »
Quote

If we discover that this power is being abused, we have recourse.  In the absence of illegality, abuse or corruption, printing classified information in the newspaper is a crime. [/B]


Except the information in this case was far from classified. It was on many websites, including the company Swift that was doing the collecting. And other papers printed it and didn't get rebuked. Maybe because a paper like the WSJ is the darling of big business interests and the NYT isn't.

Maybe... just maybe... that has something to do with what is going on.

Now - knowing all these facts - do you support a Congressional censure of the NYT? Do you?

Offline Hap

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #71 on: June 29, 2006, 01:13:16 PM »
don't confuse them with the facts.

hap

storch

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #72 on: June 29, 2006, 02:20:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
But yer wrong.  On 9/10 or 9/11 to now, we are still NOT "safe".   But the money train still is chugging along.
what led you think I thought otherwise.  my position is and always has been that only I am responsible for my own safety.  I'm not one of those that would consider calling "911".

Offline Flatbar

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #73 on: June 29, 2006, 04:27:05 PM »
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Ah....other priorities...:)


You can enlist up to 42 years old now, Army that is.

Offline Maverick

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #74 on: June 29, 2006, 04:46:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
what led you think I thought otherwise.  my position is and always has been that only I am responsible for my own safety.  I'm not one of those that would consider calling "911".


That is a foolish stance to take. Not all threats are those that can be resolved with the implementation of simple force to a single target.
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