Author Topic: A Most Eloquent and Compelling Argument  (Read 2309 times)

Offline RedTop

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A Most Eloquent and Compelling Argument
« Reply #90 on: June 29, 2006, 10:48:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Neubob
Unfortunately, to attain the will, we must accept that doing the unthinkable may become necessary. Let's say, they blow up a major port city. What's a just response? More troops to seek and kill Bin Laden? Unseat a government and install a new one which will begin feeding cash and moral to terrorist cells the moment we start pulling out?

Bin laden and his ilk live off the will and support of the regular, everyday guy that lives with his family, eats dinner, prays five times a day and either covertly or overtly wishes for the demise of Western dominance. Killing Bin laden will, inevitably, only create a vaccuum, which will then create a new one. You must kill the support system of the Bin Ladens of this world. You must create a situation where there is no longer a possibility of a vaccuum.

You can't re-indoctrinate them all. You can only convince them that in a fight, they're not going to win. Thus far, we've convinced them that we're only willing to go so far. How do we prove them wrong?

9/11 should have been answered not with a search for Bin Laden, but with a summary bombing of Riyad, Dubai, or any other symbol of their civilization. Sure, it'll polarize them against us, but they will learn to fear as they've never feared before. If we don't lower ourselves to their playing field, we'll take our self-righteous respect for life to our grave.

You know after 9/11, I recall somebody sayingthat we shouldn't go in full scale, we should go on a limited basis, immediiately, and begin murdering the families, friends, acquaintences, friends of friends, business associates, friends of business associates, pets, houseplants...etc...of everyone connected with the WTC attacks. Murder the young, the innocent, and murder them in the same way they murder us, only quicker and on a wider scale. Make their fear overwhelm their willingness to see us burn. Maybe that's the in between we should be looking for.


:aok See YA...Getting off work and going home. Early Tee Time in the am as well.

Nice discussion. We may not agree on every aspect , but on alot we do. Enjoyed it.
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Offline Neubob

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A Most Eloquent and Compelling Argument
« Reply #91 on: June 29, 2006, 10:50:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by RedTop
:aok See YA...Getting off work and going home. Early Tee Time in the am as well.

Nice discussion. We may not agree on every aspect , but on alot we do. Enjoyed it.


Likewise Redtop.

Drive safe.

Offline Hangtime

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A Most Eloquent and Compelling Argument
« Reply #92 on: June 29, 2006, 10:54:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
Hang,

If you can't anwer the issues then at least say so. The tired argumentum ad hominum doesn't get it. All I did was to ask you to explain your position in a thoughtful manner. I have neither referred to you disrespectfully nor flamed your posts.


Mav, I believe I answered clearly what certainly appeared to me to just another set-up pile of liberal hand-wringing. You knew the answer I had for every point.. yet decided to make an object lesson of me anyway. Now you display 'hurt' because I delivered it with venom and disgust for the pacifist liberal talking points you've got so well rehearsed from all those hours spent sucking up the tripe pumped over your liberal news network.

Yah, I'm a dinosaur. My time is gone. The meek, the placid, the folks like you who are the majority in this nation now are willing to sit back and take the scraps that fall off the table with a scraping bow and are quite happy with the previous errors in government policy and sagely point at them as excuses for sending out the next round of sacraficial lambs for the slaughter.

My apologies for the personal nature of my replies to your lofty bait... I have no excuse. Just reasons. I tire of platitudes and socialist PC bull****. The country has been sold to the highest bidder.. we no longer have a representitve government and our future as a free and independent nation has been squandered for fake 'security'.

And your OK with that. And it makes me angry.

One thing is certain.. you will deserve your fate.

As do I.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #93 on: June 30, 2006, 12:04:02 AM »
I find it truly ironic that you list me as a liberal. I'm rather far from that as I figure you would remember from before.

I do happen to be somewhat educated in some of the dynamics of a low intensity conflict vs all out war. I also take a larger view than just the battlefield. Once the battle is over there remains more work to be done.That is pretty much the same as knowing that the battle isn't won just by the guys fighting at the front line but by the folks who move resources to the guy at the front.

There is more to the interaction of nations than mere posturing and conflict. I also see how the economies of the globe interact to influence each other. I'm not saying this is anything extraordinary, it isn't. It just takes more examination than merely throwing out phrases and sound bites. That's the same for a liberal point of view as it is for a conservative one. Nonsense is nonsense no matter whether it comes from some one like kerry and gore or limaugh and goldwater. (Now I'm dating myself there)

All I did was try to get you to examone what you posted and you got upset when you couldn't explain it I guess.

You just can't go kill them all and let God sort them out any more than you can pay them to behave.
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storch

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A Most Eloquent and Compelling Argument
« Reply #94 on: June 30, 2006, 06:43:53 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by AWMac
Storch is this like when I killed you in MA and you complained that you had a dead stick? Then you went off claiming that's the only way I get kills... then you talked watermelon about the MAWs?  

LMAO I had to squelch you... what a hissy fit you were havin!!!

Storch you Sir are a true Budweiser Man of Genius...

*Budweiser Song Playin, with over announcement Man*

Man: Yes you virtual flying pilot...Flyin High..A True Man of Genius.
Song: Virtual flyin maaaaan....
Man: Killin alot, but when it comes to landing...
Song: I'm a Dead Stick Flyin Maaaaaaan....
Man: It's not always that way.. 'cept for some of them all...
Song: Shot down by a MAWWWWWW....
Man: So you Virtual Deadstick Pilot Man you jump on 200 with yer lip!!!!
Song: Gotta give Mac alotta chit... I was Deadstickkkkkkk...
Man: So we Salute you Virtual Flying Deadstick Man... a True Man of Genuis...
Song: A Deadstick I swearrrrr!!!
Man: Well then Budweiser is your beer...This Bud is for You!!!

:aok

Mac
he drops out of a pixellated sky cautiously looking around to see if the coast is clear.  with sweaty palms, pulse racing he carefully times his pounce.  with his prey looming ever larger in his cartoon sights. BAM, another easymode kill for the fair maiden of Aces High.  his nerves all tense from the exhiliration he seeks relief by playing a richard simmons excercise video and pleasures himself while humming salt and Peppa's what a man, what a man, what a mighty good man.  the all powerful master of the lame game play ms. AWquack and good friend of the equally skilled and likeminded AkAk.  yes you sure showed me.  you go girl. :D

Offline WhiteHawk

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A Most Eloquent and Compelling Argument
« Reply #95 on: June 30, 2006, 07:26:06 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
we're either the worlds policemen, or we're a buncha freakin looters using excuses that are convienient to the cause.

Yah, saddam was/is worth going after.

But if yer gonna use his body count as an excuse, there's no excuse for not agressively dealing with all the other two-bit watermelon dictators with blood on their hands.


Yea, like the guys in kuwait and yemen and pakistan and china,, oh those are our allies.:(

Offline WhiteHawk

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Re: A Most Eloquent and Compelling Argument
« Reply #96 on: June 30, 2006, 07:34:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins


These innocent dead make a most compelling argument in support of the invasion that toppled Hussein's murderous regime.  They make an eloquent rebuttal to those who maintain that the invasion was justified, and that the cowardly Iraqis got the government that they deserved.

I


.  The arguemnet that saddam was a meanie, therefore the war is justified is a pathetic, losers save-face, roll of the dice.  Our US troops are murdering women and children also.  Give us 25 years of occupation there and ad up the body count.  Saddam is the only man who can rule Iraq the way it needs to be ruled.  With and iron hand.

Offline Toad

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A Most Eloquent and Compelling Argument
« Reply #97 on: June 30, 2006, 07:55:25 AM »
Neubob, you're solution is, basically, to become more evil and vile than our enemy on a scale ten orders of magnitude higher.

You would turn the US into a nuclear tyrant; not exactly the legacy I have in mind for this country.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Neubob

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« Reply #98 on: June 30, 2006, 08:11:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Neubob, you're solution is, basically, to become more evil and vile than our enemy on a scale ten orders of magnitude higher.

You would turn the US into a nuclear tyrant; not exactly the legacy I have in mind for this country.


Well, if you've got a better way to deal with barbarians (and I don't accept re-indoctrinating them as a viable option), then I'm all ears.

To me, the equation is simple, if it's them or us, I'd prefer it to be them. Ten times over, them. Because if they're truly the enemy, and I believe they are, frankly, we shouldn't be concerned what happens to them. They certainly don't care what happens to us, and loving them into civility will not work.

As for legacy. It's pretty much as I said before, if we don't put the olive branch down eventually, and start using the pointy objects in the other talon, we're very likely to take our respect for human life to our collective grave.  

How's that for a legacy?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2006, 08:15:25 AM by Neubob »

Offline john9001

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A Most Eloquent and Compelling Argument
« Reply #99 on: June 30, 2006, 08:48:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Neubob
Well, if you've got a better way to deal with barbarians (and I don't accept re-indoctrinating them as a viable option), then I'm all ears.

How's that for a legacy?


the women of Kuwait voted in a election for the first time in history yesterday.


How's that for a legacy?

Offline Neubob

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« Reply #100 on: June 30, 2006, 09:10:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
the women of Kuwait voted in a election for the first time in history yesterday.


How's that for a legacy?


When they vote to establish an attitude of mutual respect and understanding with the people that brought them this great leap in societal advancement, it'll be a legacy.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #101 on: June 30, 2006, 09:22:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Neubob
Well, if you've got a better way to deal with barbarians (and I don't accept re-indoctrinating them as a viable option), then I'm all ears.

 


Here's the problem: to preemptively use nuclear weapons on people we suspect (without incontrovertible proof) of intending to harm us, to preemptively kill millions of innocent people... would make us...wait for it....


Barbarians.

Do you see the circle?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Neubob

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« Reply #102 on: June 30, 2006, 12:31:33 PM »
See Rule #7
« Last Edit: June 30, 2006, 12:46:54 PM by Skuzzy »

Offline EagleDNY

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A Most Eloquent and Compelling Argument
« Reply #103 on: June 30, 2006, 02:02:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime


Look.. we keep trying to 'excuse' the war in Iraq.. that's not abnormal. We'd all like to think our national policy is based on nobel goals. But, honestly; is that why our government got jiggy with Saddam?
 


Simple answer as to why we were 'jiggy' is IRAN.  When Saddam was attacking our enemy, we didn't mind and helped.   The enemy of our enemy is our friend.  Not always the most enlightened policy, but it works.

Should we not have helped the Russians against Hitler because of Stalin?  In 41-45, Stalin was seen as the lesser threat so we helped the Russians, later he became our enemy again as our national policy changed and he was seen as the greater threat.  Stalin eventually killed many more people than Hitler killed, so does that somehow make the US government responsible for those deaths?  I don't think so.

Given what we know about Castro and Cuba, was JFK wrong to not back the Bay of Pigs invasion?  Given the history of North Korea, its' starving people and nuclear threat, was Truman wrong to not let Macarthur bomb the Chinese and perhaps win the Korean war?  Our hindsight on these events doesn't mean we are somehow smarter than they were.  

Hindsight is always 20-20 - and whining about a policy AFTER action taken doesn't work out as planned doesn't indicate enlighted leadership or greater intelligence.  'No plan survives contact with the enemy' - Senators and Congressmen who stand up in front of the cameras now telling us they were 'deceived' or that they wouldn't have voted for the Iraq war if they knew then what they know now are (IMHO) just pandering idiots.  

Leaders are often called on to make decisions based on imperfect data.  If you're the POTUS, you are responsible for and your decisions will affect a lot of lives.  You look at the threats and make the call.  Given 9/11 and the intelligence they had on Iraq, it was hard NOT to go to war, and let us remember the vast majority of politicians from BOTH parties were all in favor at the time.

EagleDNY
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Offline AWMac

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A Most Eloquent and Compelling Argument
« Reply #104 on: June 30, 2006, 03:40:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
he drops out of a pixellated sky cautiously looking around to see if the coast is clear.  with sweaty palms, pulse racing he carefully times his pounce.  with his prey looming ever larger in his cartoon sights. BAM, another easymode kill for the fair maiden of Aces High.  his nerves all tense from the exhiliration he seeks relief by playing a richard simmons excercise video and pleasures himself while humming salt and Peppa's what a man, what a man, what a mighty good man.  the all powerful master of the lame game play ms. AWquack and good friend of the equally skilled and likeminded AkAk.  yes you sure showed me.  you go girl. :D


See Storch...it really rubs yer Camel Toes when you get spanked...Obviously AKAK spanked you too LOL.

Yes you are a Budwieser True Man of Genius...this Bud is for you.

Muhahhahhahaaa...

:rofl

Mac

See ya up, check Six!

:D