Author Topic: A Most Eloquent and Compelling Argument  (Read 1996 times)

Offline SirLoin

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A Most Eloquent and Compelling Argument
« Reply #45 on: June 29, 2006, 06:24:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
Kill him and then Good Riddance.


..Good riddance to Bush
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Offline Hangtime

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A Most Eloquent and Compelling Argument
« Reply #46 on: June 29, 2006, 06:27:09 PM »
and what the governement is doing with our troops does not pass muster either.

Bring 'em home.

No one more kids life for corporate profit.

I wanna see terrorisim stamped out. sending out squads of marines to pay 'duck and cover' for terrorist trainees is not ever going to end terrorism.

we're feeding the terrorist states the lives of our kids, and buying their oil.

just about the dumbest forigen policy.. or the smartest corporate business plan... i've ever seen.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline wrag

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Re: Re: A Most Eloquent and Compelling Argument
« Reply #47 on: June 29, 2006, 06:28:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
But...but..no WMD were found! Boosh lied! That was the only reason for war! (sarcasm)


Sadly I'm seeing reports about many Gulf War Vets that suggest that Saddam did have bio weapons and did use them on our troops.
It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline Squire

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A Most Eloquent and Compelling Argument
« Reply #48 on: June 29, 2006, 06:39:11 PM »
What bothers me about the Iraq debates is how the perceived justification keeps changing. Either its Saddam was a dictator/despot, or its WMD, or its the fact he killed 300,000 of his own people or its the A-Q connection, or democracy to the Mid East, or its something else, depending on the day of the week, and the mood?

If you ask 100 people "why invade Iraq?" you get 100 different answers.

Seems there is no clear cut reason that stands out.

And for the record, I supported the invasion, my reason was that the 1991 Gulf War was not really settled, and either you had to A: Make Peace with Saddam at some point, or B: Invade and topple him. Having an undeclared war go on for 10+ years with no fly zones and UN sanctions was a waste of time and energy for all those involved. Deal with it one way or another and move on.

I also find it interesting that all the nay sayers in 1991 that said they should not have gone to Baghdad were around 10 years later to say why they should. It was a mistake to have the cease fire in 1991 before business was concluded, seems to me.

"But, but, the arabs would have left the Coalition".

File that under who gives a s**t. ?
« Last Edit: June 29, 2006, 06:41:14 PM by Squire »
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Offline uvwpvW

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A Most Eloquent and Compelling Argument
« Reply #49 on: June 29, 2006, 06:44:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lukster
That reminds me of a story. This guy was speeding down the highway along with several other cars when he was pulled over for speeding by the county sheriff. After receiving a ticket he asked the sheriff why only he was pulled over while there were several others also speeding. The sheriff asked him if he'd ever gone fishing. "Sure", he replied. The sheriff then asked, "ever catch all the fish?"






Lt. Frank Drebin: [to applause] Thank you. But, in all honesty, the last three I backed over with my car. Luckily, they turned out to be drug-dealers.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2006, 06:46:45 PM by uvwpvW »

Offline wrag

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A Most Eloquent and Compelling Argument
« Reply #50 on: June 29, 2006, 06:53:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
and what the governement is doing with our troops does not pass muster either.

Bring 'em home.

No one more kids life for corporate profit.

I wanna see terrorisim stamped out. sending out squads of marines to pay 'duck and cover' for terrorist trainees is not ever going to end terrorism.

we're feeding the terrorist states the lives of our kids, and buying their oil.

just about the dumbest forigen policy.. or the smartest corporate business plan... i've ever seen.


The point I see Hang trying to make is IMHO very very VALID.

Right now the countries right next to Iraq are very much like N.V. and Iraq is very much like S.V. and the bad guys can come in to Iraq and can run back to where they came from.

The reports seem to say the Governments of those countries want very much, perhaps to maintain their power, for the new Iraq Government to FAIL.

Try playing someone a game of chess using the following rules..........

your pieces must always remain on your side of the board............

your opponents pieces may move where ever thay can on the entire board....

who do you think will win such a game?
It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline RedTop

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« Reply #51 on: June 29, 2006, 07:05:22 PM »
"and what the governement is doing to our troops does not past muster either."

The government isn't killing the troops Hang. The insurgents are. It's not Senator so-in-so's order to send Sgt. Hulka out on patrol with his squad. Its their job. It's what they get paid to do. It's what they train for. Did the Joe Marine sign up thinking he would be dodging bullets from Muhammad-*******-Muslim-Moron? No I doubt it very much. He signed up , or I would say alot did , thinking the would get some money for education , 3 squares a day and a job cause they couldn't get one at home for whatever reason.

We were ALL told by the POTUS the reasons for going to war. Some and possibly even MOST agreed with them. Dems and Repubs alone were all preaching the same montra at the time of how evil Hussein was. They were all saying how he had this and that. We were all spoon fed info they wanted us to hear to sell us a bit of goods. They have found WMD. The ones they were looking for?? No , I don't think so. Is there a secondary mission there? Yes , and the troops are doing a DAMN FINE JOB. We've lost few troops compared to past history. FEW. 1 is to many I would agree. But in the grand scheme of things we have lost very few.


Bring 'em home.

I agree. Come Home when ordered to. When they feel they have completed the mission. But not 1 day before that. Don't leave a halfass job done for political pundits and pressure and leave the blood and lives of those lost and wounded on the field for no more than a bunch of sissyass politicans who succumb to pressure so they can stay in office.

No one more kids life for corporate profit.

I wanna see terrorisim stamped out. sending out squads of marines to pay 'duck and cover' for terrorist trainees is not ever going to end terrorism.

Hang...Bud...Terrorism will be here long after we are gone. I don't think we can ever win the "War" on terror. But I don't think sitting back and doing nothing is the answer either.

we're feeding the terrorist states the lives of our kids, and buying their oil.

We were buying it long before this war ever started. We will be buying it long after we leave Iraq

just about the dumbest forigen policy.. or the smartest corporate business plan... i've ever seen.

Last thing I'll say. I'm not looking to argue at all. I hear that all the time. Lots of arguing but not real common sense down to earth talking about how to fix things. Only political cra* and partisan politics. To ME and IMHO that is more a cause of the results of where we are now than just about anything.

I think the Terrorist in the world , and Al Queda especially , have won 2 major victories in the war. They hit us on our own soil and exposed our weakness in our own backyard as far as security goes. They have also turned this nation on itself. It's not the same place I grew up in as a kid. It's not the same place I served in the U.S. Navy to protect. Its changed. And it isn't for the better.
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Offline Neubob

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A Most Eloquent and Compelling Argument
« Reply #52 on: June 29, 2006, 07:42:27 PM »
Anything but a hard-nosed, unrelenting approach to dealing with Arab nations, indeed, with Arab people, will end in disaster for all. Nothing short of establishing a colony on another planet and leaving them to their dis-organized, unproductive, childishly-overzealous devices here on Earth will ensure our long term survival as a species. God knows the only way they'll ever reach space is when somebody with their finger on the button comes to their senses and blows them into it.

Please, turn on the laugh track, but when they pump dry the only source of income their societies have managed to exploit, they will turn to consuming those societies that have managed to rise from the dark ages. A clash of fragile civilization and what can only be described as crude, backward uncivilization, will, inevitably, lead to the downfall of all organized society. They'll thrive in the ensuing madness, because it's the substrate on which they exist. Nobody else will.

They do not want to share the world with Western civilization, and only do so because we sustain their economies with our hunger for oil. Once that leverage is gone, be very, very afraid. Only the blind can't see that they're not buying what we're selling, our ideology, way of live, whatever you want to call it. For some reason, we continue to operate under the illusion that we can force them into it. We can't.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2006, 08:08:22 PM by Neubob »

Offline Hangtime

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A Most Eloquent and Compelling Argument
« Reply #53 on: June 29, 2006, 07:48:13 PM »
Yup.

:aok
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

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A Most Eloquent and Compelling Argument
« Reply #54 on: June 29, 2006, 07:51:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Neubob
Anything but a hard-nosed, unrelenting approach to dealing with Arab nations, indeed, with Arab people, will end in disaster for all. Nothing short of establishing a colony on another planet and leaving them to their dis-organized, unproductive, childishly-overzealous devices here on Earth will ensure our long term survival as a species. God knows the only way they'll ever reach space is when somebody with their finger on the button comes to their senses and blows them into it.

Please, turn on the laugh track, but when they pump dry the only source of income their societies have managed to exploit, they will turn to consuming those societies that have managed to rise from the dark ages. A clash of fragile civilization and what can only be described as crude, backward uncivilization, will, inevitably, lead to the downfall of all organized society. They'll thrive in the ensuing madness, because it's the substrate on which they exist. Nobody else will.

They do not want to share the world with Western civilization. Plain and simple. For some reason, we continue to operate under the illusion that we can force them into it.
they understand force.  both on a personal and collective level, just like anyone else.  the problem is that we have become weak.

Offline RedTop

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A Most Eloquent and Compelling Argument
« Reply #55 on: June 29, 2006, 08:02:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Neubob
Anything but a hard-nosed, unrelenting approach to dealing with Arab nations, indeed, with Arab people, will end in disaster for all. Nothing short of establishing a colony on another planet and leaving them to their dis-organized, unproductive, childishly-overzealous devices here on Earth will ensure our long term survival as a species. God knows the only way they'll ever reach space is when somebody with their finger on the button comes to their senses and blows them into it.

Please, turn on the laugh track, but when they pump dry the only source of income their societies have managed to exploit, they will turn to consuming those societies that have managed to rise from the dark ages. A clash of fragile civilization and what can only be described as crude, backward uncivilization, will, inevitably, lead to the downfall of all organized society. They'll thrive in the ensuing madness, because it's the substrate on which they exist. Nobody else will.

They do not want to share the world with Western civilization, and only do so because we sustain their economies with our hunger for oil. Once that leverage is gone, be very, very afraid. Only the blind can't see that they're not buying what they're selling, our ideology, way of live, whatever you want to call it. For some reason, we continue to operate under the illusion that we can force them into it. We can't.


Interesting outlook.

Maybe this nation should become more and more isolasionist ?
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Offline RedTop

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A Most Eloquent and Compelling Argument
« Reply #56 on: June 29, 2006, 08:04:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
they understand force.  both on a personal and collective level, just like anyone else.  the problem is that we have become weak.


Yup...and will NEVER become strong again. Ever!
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Offline Neubob

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« Reply #57 on: June 29, 2006, 08:05:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
they understand force.  both on a personal and collective level, just like anyone else.  the problem is that we have become weak.


Hence 'hard nosed and unrelenting'.

The Israelis know this only too well. Unfortunately, as Europe cries murder at every act of military aggression the Israelis carry out, while simultaneously standing by silently as the 'poor and desperate' Palestinians resort to 'the only' option they have, the rest of the Arab world is starting to understand that the West is simply not ready or not able to deal with them on their own level.

Modern day barbarians, nothing more, nothing less. Only difference is that today they drive fine German cars, wear fine Italian clothing and coat their scalps with fine hair-care products. Unless something changes, and soon(everything from immigration laws to military policy), they'll make a Rome of us yet.

Offline Neubob

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« Reply #58 on: June 29, 2006, 08:07:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by RedTop
Interesting outlook.

Maybe this nation should become more and more isolasionist ?


I don't know Redtop... We can try, but they'll overrun Europe soon enough, and then what?

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #59 on: June 29, 2006, 08:09:31 PM »
I could give a rats bellybutton if the arab world hates us and fears us.

the problem is, they don't respect us. Like the Russians.. FORCE they respect. The means to project FORCE is what they are attempting to build.

we can change that.

and we'd better get it done damn quick.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.