Author Topic: Messeschmitt Bf-109, Emil, Gustav and Konrad (Read 6240 times)

Reynolds · « **on:** June 29, 2006, 11:25:40 PM »

Okay, since no one else has anything posted for my 109...

Post suggestions for combat, interesting experiences, and really anything else involving 109s here!

ramzey · « **Reply #1 on:** June 30, 2006, 12:10:15 AM »

I suggest to use search option , its helpfull

Debonair · « **Reply #2 on:** June 30, 2006, 12:41:02 AM »

"109" is too short to search for, so try "leather underwear"

Bruno · « **Reply #3 on:** June 30, 2006, 01:02:02 AM »

Who is 'Konrad'?

K = Kurfürst

Search member name 'Kurfürst' and you will get all you can handle...

zorstorer · « **Reply #4 on:** June 30, 2006, 01:33:58 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Bruno
Who is 'Konrad'?

K = Kurfï¿½rst

Search member name 'Kurfï¿½rst' and you will get all you can handle...

Thats just mean Bruno

Reynolds · « **Reply #5 on:** June 30, 2006, 01:54:34 AM »

Konrad= Messerschmitt Bf-109 K series. So, um, none of that **** has anything to do w/ 109s, so please, dont post it. I would like to just seriously discuss the Bf-109!

Also, at the risk of sounding like the complete idiot i am, what does Kurfurst mean?!? I know sheiBe, but ive never heard of Kurfurst...

straffo · « **Reply #6 on:** June 30, 2006, 02:34:02 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Reynolds
Konrad= Messerschmitt Bf-109 K series. So, um, none of that **** has anything to do w/ 109s, so please, dont post it. I would like to just seriously discuss the Bf-109!

Also, at the risk of sounding like the complete idiot i am, what does Kurfurst mean?!? I know sheiBe, but ive never heard of Kurfurst...

Kürfürst : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince-elector

K stand for "Kürfürst" not "Konrad" like F stand for "Friedrich" not "Frantz" or "Fritz"
D==Dora
E==Emil
F==Friedrich
G==Gustav
K==Kürfürst

Reynolds · « **Reply #7 on:** June 30, 2006, 02:58:48 AM »

I have never heard of it as Kurfurst. Every single website/ book/ tv show I have seen called it Konrad. Are you sure? Or is my world just crashing down?

Angus · « **Reply #8 on:** June 30, 2006, 03:32:28 AM »

It's your world.
K is Kurfurst.
Never saw Konrad anywhere.
Most common 109 is Gustav anyway...

Reynolds · « **Reply #9 on:** June 30, 2006, 03:52:53 AM »

Wow. I feel like an idiot. Sorry for the confusion, and thanks for setting me straight!

Angus · « **Reply #10 on:** June 30, 2006, 04:25:08 AM »

NP, happens all the time.
There is a lot of confusion about the F model, I've slipped there

Well, you had a question about interesting stuff with 109's.
If you fly Aces high, just fly them. The 109F is pretty nimble, and the 109K is very fast. I like the 109G-14 best for some odd reason, but they are all interesting.
There are links here somewhere for performance comparison pages for all the aircraft in AH,- there you can compare 109 to 109.
Then the internet...full of 109 stuff.
Here is a link to the 109 and one of it's head enemies:
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/9378/
You can download the engine sound there

And here's the bird

Reynolds · « **Reply #11 on:** June 30, 2006, 05:59:50 AM »

Yes, the only fighters I fly are the 109s. Im a Luftwaffe pilot!:noid
And the F model i knew, i just cannot beleive I got something wrong about the 109!!! My dad would have a heart attack. I have more 109/Luftwaffe memorabelia than college kids have porn! I dont have any movie that came out withing the last 4 years, and my second favorite movie is Battle of Brittan! (My first favorite is Lord of War, because i think it sends a real message) I know nothing but the art of war, and i got something about the 109 wrong. Its hard to beleive! Its almost as embarassing as having my arse handed to me every time i fly my lovely Gustav, or Emil, or any other 109s! Oh, and the site you gave me is acting wierd. It says:

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Angus · « **Reply #12 on:** June 30, 2006, 06:58:45 AM »

Works fine for me.
It was on the top 10 list when I just googled "me 109".
It's not my site, but I took one of the Spitfire photos there.
Oh, do you fly AH? If you do, you should also test other fighters against the 109, - gives a good lesson to try the whole planeset.

Bruno · « **Reply #13 on:** June 30, 2006, 11:30:40 AM »

Quote

F stand for "Friedrich" not "Frantz" or "Fritz"

Fritz is shorthand for Friedrich so is ok to describe the 109F for example...

Franz is the navigator / back seat on bomber (emil is pilot).

HoHun · « **Reply #14 on:** June 30, 2006, 01:23:53 PM »

Hi Bruno,

>Fritz is shorthand for Friedrich so is ok to describe the 109F for example...

So did I think, too, but I just checked the site of the Museum für Post und Telekommunikation in Berlin, and they show "Fritz" as official phonetic code:

Telefonalphabet 1934

Anton
Bruno
Cäsar
CH: Charlotte
Dora
Emil
Fritz
Gustav
Heinz
Ida
Jot
Kurfürst
Ludwig
Marie
Nordpol
Otto
Paula
Quelle
Richard
Siegfried
SCH: Schule
Toni
Ulrich
Viktor
Wilhelm
Xantippe
Ypern
Zeppelin
Ärger
Öse
Übel

They have documented quite a few versions on their site:

http://www.tu-berlin.de/~gebrauchsanleitung/Buchstab.htm

Note that there was a big change in 1934 for ideological reasons - biblical names were elimated because they were considered yewish.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telefonalphabet

Some more changes were the contraction of "Friedrich" to "Fritz" and "Heinrich" to "Heinz" (which was not that sensible phonetically), "Bernhard" was replaced by the linguistically related "Bruno". Then there were some new "patriotic sounding" codes in other places ("Kurfürst" and "Ypern" - the latter probably alluding to a popular WW1 myth).

It seems the changes of 1934 were rolled back after WW2, but somehow "Nathan" was an exception from that. I'm surprised to see that "Samuel" is supposed to be the official code (from 1950 on, and re-inforced by later standards such as the DIN 5009 from 1983), because I have never heard anyone use anything but "Siegfried"! Maybe if I had paid more attention ... :-)

To complicate matters further, the German phonetic alphabet is a civilian development dating back to 1903, and it may be that the military used a different version for some reason. Here is one that looks a bit strange to me, but refers to a numbered military publication as source:

http://www.gyges.dk/Operational%20brevity%20code.htm

As if that weren't complicated enough, different German-speaking countries had different versions of the civilian code, too:

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/radio/phonetic-alph/full/

(I'm actually a bit suspicious about the accuracy of the various quoted versions as none of them is documented with a dated reference.)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)