Palestinian education for kids

[lasersailor184]

Even if the washington report was credible, it treats this:

Israeli school textbooks as well as children’s storybooks, according to recent academic studies and surveys, portray Palestinians and Arabs as “murderers,” “rioters,” “suspicious,” and generally backward and unproductive. Direct delegitimization and negative stereotyping of Palestinians and Arabs are the rule rather than the exception in Israeli schoolbooks.

As the wrong thing to do.

Maybe it's just my point of view, but Murderers, Rioters, Suspicious and Unproductive sound spot on for the palestinian efforts.

[Gunslinger]

This little girl, the same age as Gal Aizenman, is taking part in a “graduation exercise” at a kindergarten run by the “Islamic Charitable Association” in Gaza. She is commemorating the ghastly lynching of two Israeli reservists in Ramallah.


A photo discovered by the IDF in a routine search of a Palestinian house on the outskirts of Hebron

[Gunslinger]

Palestinian youth carrying explosive belt arrested at Hawara crossing

A terrorist attack was thwarted when a Palestinian youth, around the age of 15, was arrested at the Hawara crossing, south of Nablus, in possession of a bag containing an explosive belt, an improvised rifle and 20 bullets.
 
 
 
In the afternoon hours of February 3, 2005, a Palestinian youth was identified acting suspiciously. An IDF officer asked the youth to open the bag he was carrying. When the contents of the bag were identified to be of a potentially explosive nature the people at the crossing were asked to clear the area and sappers were called to the scene. An explosive belt, an improvised rifle and 20 bullets found in the bag were detonated in a controlled manner by sappers. The youth was taken for questioning.

It should be emphasized that this thwarted attack is yet a further example of the fundamental importance and efficiency of the security crossings surrounding Nablus. It was thanks to the alertness of the soldiers at the crossing that a terrorist attack was thwarted.

On December 12, 2004, IDF and GSS forces at the Hawara crossing uncovered an explosive bag hidden in a cupboard, that was being transported in a furniture truck on its way to Jerusalem from Nablus.

Similarly on December 26, 2004, two youths were arrested at the same crossing, carrying two explosive devices in a bag. The devices comprised of both explosive material and shrapnel, and were intended for use in attacks against Israeli civilians and soldiers in the region. Both the devices were detonated in a controlled manner by sappers.
 (Image removed from quote.)

LIES LIES ALL OF IT LIES.....THIS IS THE RELIGION OF PEACE!!!!!!!!!!!

[VOR]

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[WhiteHawk]

Originally posted by ramzey
at list they like to fight for their nation, not like other let yourself to be sloughter or stand back when their nation is sloughtered

That is a good point.  Just exactly what is the root cause of the pal jew problem?
I am under the impression that after wwII the jews all flocked to Palestine and then I get lost?  Anybody know what happened.  Did the Jews force the palestinians out of their homeland?  If so arent the palestinians justified in fighting the occupying army?

[-tronski-]

Violence begets violence....

Both are as bad as each other, both are founded on a history of terrorism and violence...in the name of nationhood, and in the name of righteousness -  which both claim...

 -tronski-

[bozon]

Originally posted by WhiteHawk
That is a good point.  Just exactly what is the root cause of the pal jew problem?
I am under the impression that after wwII the jews all flocked to Palestine and then I get lost?  Anybody know what happened.  Did the Jews force the palestinians out of their homeland?  If so arent the palestinians justified in fighting the occupying army?

So now, since WWII the Jews do fight back and still the world is not pleased.

You confuse 1948 independence war with 1967 6-days war.
1948 was a civil war more than anything where two groups living in mixture in the same geographical regoin fight each other (with one of the groups supported by Egypt, Syria Jordan and reinforfcement from Iraq). This was not stae  vs. state war. The Israeli side ended up with most of the British Palestine area while the rest of it was taken by the Jordanians (west bank) and the Syrians (Golan hights). Palestinians who found themselves under Israeli rule were given citizenship after several years (can't remember the exact date).

1948 lines were cease fire lines and not aknowledged by any arab country who shared these lines. Therefore they are not recognized as international borders.

1967 was a proper country vs. 3 countries (Egypt Jordan and Syria) war. Israel occupied the Sinai noodleula (and the Gaza strip) the west bank (area between Jerusalem and the Jordan valey) and the Golan hights. Again, the war ended with a cease fire agreement replacing 1948 cease fire lines with 1967 cease fire lines.

The Palestinian population occupied in 1967 did not get an Israeli citizenship and are todays "Palestinians". The Sinai noodleula was returned to Egypt in 1981 for a peace agreement creating Israel's 1st real international border - on the 1948 cease fire line, but leaving Gaza on the Israeli side to choke on. The Egyptians didn't want the palestinians either. The peace with Jordan was signed in 1995(4?) actualy making the 1967 cease fire line Israel's second international border. The Jordanians were happy to leave that teritory, palestinian population included, for Israel to choke on.

In 2000 the UN was called to mark the border between Israel and Lebanon. They used the 1923 British mandate line seperating Lebanon from Palestine. Lebanon still has not deployed its army along this border giving a 1001 excuses for letting the Hizballa, an independent Islamic organization, to militerize the border and occasionally attack Israel.
Of course, the Lebanon goverment is not to blame for these attacks because it is not THEY who do it, but some people who happen to be operating from their territory.

So now Israel has 3 international borders:
one based on the 1948 cease fire line.
one based on the 1967 cease fire line.
and one based on 1923 British mandate lines (decided by an agreement between the French and British btw).

And now to the difficult questions:

* So, which area is illegaly occupied and which is legal?

* What are Israel's borders that it should withdraw to according to UN resolution 242 - 1948, 1967 cease fire lines? maybe 1923 British mandate line or perhaps 1947 UN partition plan lines that were rejected by the arab side and never existed?

* Is someone who lived in the west bank till 1967 under Jordanian rule and escaped to Jordan in 1967 a Palestinian?

* Is an arab with an Israeli citizenship a Palestinian? Try to suggest to him that his land and town be part of the Palestinian state, if he answers "yes".

* If the entire land is Palestinian and illegaly occupied by the Jews, where should the Jews evacuate back to? Germany, Poland, Romania, Hungary, Russia, Ukrain, France, Greece, US, Argentina, Morroco, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Yemen?

[straffo]

It was perhaps an error to not make  Sinaï,Golan and West bank Protectorates to build a sort of Glacis.

During my studies it was "what if" we studied ,as you know the relation between Palestinians and surrounding arabs states are ... special at least

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by -tronski-
Violence begets violence....

Both are as bad as each other, both are founded on a history of terrorism and violence...in the name of nationhood, and in the name of righteousness -  which both claim...

 -tronski-

I still love this attitude that both hands are dirty therefore no one is justified while CURRENTLY....ONE SIDE....continues to fight in an unjustified uncivilized mannor while the other protects its national intrests by use of force mostly consitant with international laws of armed conflict.  

FACT palistinians are the bastards of the muslim world.....no one wants them yet they fight the jihad against israel so they are used as pawns in a rallying cause.  

FACT   Israel has made more than a few concessions in thelast 5 years and conitinues to get screwed  as a result.

FACT   The UN feels more sympothy for the plight of the palistinians than most and continues to turn a blind eye to the terrorist tactics used by them while scrutinizing Israels every move.

In other words the bleeding hearts of the world seem to want to excuse the attrocities of one because they are an underdog.  I don't know a single leftist in America that would approve of these kids being raised by this village

[lasersailor184]

That is a good point. Just exactly what is the root cause of the pal jew problem?
I am under the impression that after wwII the jews all flocked to Palestine and then I get lost? Anybody know what happened. Did the Jews force the palestinians out of their homeland? If so arent the palestinians justified in fighting the occupying army?

The flocking of jews to israel began around 1900.  And before that there were still significant amounts of jews still living there.  But those moving in BOUGHT their land legally.  At the time this was happening, it was british land.

After ww2, it was just the final push of the zionist movement.

And it's not Palestine as you understand it.  Palestine is a geographical area, not a political state.  So technically, anyone who is living there is a palestinian.

[Nashwan]

I still love this attitude that both hands are dirty therefore no one is justified while CURRENTLY....ONE SIDE....continues to fight in an unjustified uncivilized mannor while the other protects its national intrests by use of force mostly consitant with international laws of armed conflict.

Israel is violating most of the laws of armed conflict, from the killing of individuals without trial (targeted killings of people that could just as easily be arrested) to the violation of the 4th Geneva Conventions protections of the rights of civilians in times of war. (collective punishment, seizure of land etc)

Do not make the mistake that Israel is fighting a "clean" war. Even the ICT, which is an Israeli propaganda mouthpiece, admits that far more Palestinian civilians (and they count rioters and stone throwers as combatants) have been killed by Israelis than vice versa. In particular, over 100 Palestinian children under the age of 12 have been killed, compared to less than half that number of Israel children.

The list of violations by the IDF is very, very long. It ranges from children shot dead by sniper fire through classroom windows to children killed by tank fire aimed into a market (because the people in the market were defying a daylight curfew) to a bomb planted on the outskirts of a refugee camp that killed 5 children, but was, according to the IDF, aimed at killing snipers (they deliberately left a booby trapped device in a built up area)

In almost all cases, the IDF holds an initial investigation, and conlcudes that the killing was justified. They held one into the killing of Tom Hurndall. When the British government complained, and pressed for a proper investigation, the IDF found that Hurndall had been shot by an IDF sniper with no justification. and the soldier was convicted of manslaughter. For thousands of Palestinians killed, there has been no proper investigation.

Go and take a look at the US state department report on human rights in Israel and the occupied territories:

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2005/61690.htm

You will find one phrase repeated endlessly concerning the killing of Palestinian civilians:

"The IDF opened an investigation into the incident; however, at year's end there were no results."

And that's from a US government report. Others, not so staunch allies of the Israeli government, are a good deal more critical.

Go to http://www.btselem.org , an Israeli human rights orginisation.

Sadly, a proportion of soldiers are always ready to commit such acts. Refusing to investigate and punish such actions is exactly the same as condoning them, and leads to ever more being committed.

FACT palistinians are the bastards of the muslim world

The Palestinians were split into two groups following 1948. Those who remained in Israel, and were granted Israel citizenship, and who have little involvement in terrorism, and those who were dispossesed of their homes and citizenship, either in 1948 or 1967, and are now stateless, either refugees or subject to military occupation (or both) and are amongst the most active terrorists in the world.

If it's not genetic (and the Israeli Arabs show it can't be) then it must be a reaction to circumstances.

FACT Israel has made more than a few concessions in thelast 5 years

Which are? Do not make the mistake of thinking the Gaza pullout was a concession to the Palestinians. It was a unilateral Israeli move, that they absolutely refused to coordinate with the Palestinian Authority, that was designed to benefit Israel, not the Palestinians. The pullout was Ariel Sharon's answer to the US Roadmap, and was intended to put an end to the much larger pullout that the roadmap called for.

See one of today's editorials from the web site of Israel's largest newspaper:

Disengagement was supposed to punish Palestinians. How did we wind up with Qassams, kidnapped soldiers?
 
The first faulty strategic decision that brought us to the tragic mess Israel now finds itself in was not the decision to vacate Jewish settlements in Gaza. The mistake was to do so unilaterally, without getting anything in return and without talking to the Palestinian leadership at that time.
 
Unilateralism stemmed mainly from the desire to win strong public support for the disengagement plan. Strangely, advisors to then-Prime Minister Sharon thought they could sell the plan to the Likud Party if it was packaged as some sort of punishment to the Palestinians. After all, it's a zero-sum game here in the Middle East: What's bad for the Palestinians must be good for Israel, and vice-versa.
 
Within this governmental PR bubble, the disengagement was carried out on empty, foreign land, rather than areas bordering on Israel and densely populated with Palestinians. They had nothing to do with the process, and from the earliest stages were excused from any expectations of diplomatic or political reward for Israel's biggest withdrawal since Sinai.
 
"Take Gaza and choke on it," was essentially the Sharon government's message to Fatah last autumn.
 
Choking on Gaza
 
And so it was. They took Gaza and choked on it. Ruling the Gaza Strip proved to be just about impossible. It took months for the Palestinians to create anything resembling a minimum of public order. The economic situation deteriorated, in part because of the loss of jobs once provided by Jewish towns, but also because no security arrangement was reached to allow border crossings to function.
 
International aid was slow in coming, and so the withdrawal that could have served to strengthen the influence of the moderate wing of the PLO, headed by Mahmoud Abbas, was lost. Hamas, which was supposed to be weakened by the disengagement, gained strength and raised its head: It presented Israel's unilateral pullout not as a punishment for terrorism, but rather – surprise, surprise!! - as a victory for it.

The rest: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3270385,00.html

In other words the bleeding hearts of the world seem to want to excuse the attrocities of one because they are an underdog. I don't know a single leftist in America that would approve of these kids being raised by this village

You think that's limited to the Palestinians? Try this, an article in the Israeli newspaper Haaretz, about military style kindergartens for Jewish children in Jerusalem:
http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasite/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=181315

The English language version is long gone, sadly, but it describes the children parading, being called "soldiers of Israel", staging a mock attack with swords etc.

See if you can find the story about schoolchildren encouraged to write to soldiers taking part in operation Defensive Shield, where they encouraged soldiers to kill Palestinians, and which a settler spokeswoman (wife of Benny Elon, an Israeli parliament member, and leader of one of the smaller parties) called "healthy hatred". The comments, quoted by Haaretz, went along the lines of "kill as many Arabs as possible.", "For me, kill at least 10" and "Ignore the laws and spray them."

The whole situation is a lot more complex than Israel = good, Palestinians = bad. Whilst that sort of attitude prevails, peace isn't very likely.

[Nashwan]

The flocking of jews to israel began around 1900. And before that there were still significant amounts of jews still living there. But those moving in BOUGHT their land legally. At the time this was happening, it was british land.

It was never British land. Britain had a mandate from the League of Nations to take Palestine and prepare it for independence, whilst simultaneously creating a homeland for Jews there.

Much of the land was bought, the point is though that following 1948 much was seized from Arabs with no compensation. Only a small proportion of the current land of Israel was ever bought and paid for. Most was state land, much was private Arab land expropriated by the state of Israel.

[Gunslinger]

Nashwan,

I beleive that these statistics are scewed for various reasons but mainly what would you consider a "civilian" in palestine?  

Everything I've read about Isralie tactics tells me that attrocities are the exception and not the rule but I have yet to read in reguards to Hamas and others fighting Israel where it is the not the exception but the rule itself.

I'm sure there's alot of common soldiers of many countries that would snap after seeing his fellow citizens turned into hamburger and yet he's the one called the barbarion by the world court of opinion.

[Nashwan]

I'd consider someone not part of a military or paramilitary group a civilian, unless they are engaged in combat.

ICT, who compiled the figures, classify Israeli soldiers taking an active part in combat as combatants, Israeli soldiers off duty (and some on duty) as non combatants. On the Palestinian side they consider any members of paramilitary and terrorist groups combatants, whether on or off duty, and anyone engaged in combat or stone throwing as a combatant.

Everything I've read about Isralie tactics tells me that attrocities are the exception and not the rule but I have yet to read in reguards to Hamas and others fighting Israel where it is the not the exception but the rule itself.

There's a certain truth in that, although of course the Israeli military has several hundred thousand troops on permament duty, and so carries out a huge number of non controversial combat operations. And whilst the suicide bombings against civilians in Israel get all the publicity, there are many hundreds of (usually unsuccessful) attacks by the Palestinians on the Israeli military.

It's worth noting that the current siege of Gaza, and it's affects on the civilian population, follow an attack on a couple of Israeli tanks/APCs, and the kidnapping of a soldier.

Of the Israeli casualties since the intifada began in 2000, 311 have been members of the IDF and paramilitary police, 697 civilians (although the civilian figures include some members of paramilitary security forces in the settlements)

ICT's rather distorted figures give the Palestinian casualties up to Jan 2005 (they stopped counting just befor the Hamas ceasfire) as 1542 combatants and 1099 non combatants killed by Israel. (this excludes medical deaths, ie those caused by delays at checkpoints, shortages of medicines caused by closures, etc)

I suspect the true figure is Israel suffers about 40% military, 60% civilian deaths, the Palestinians about 50/50. (excluding the medical causes above)

[Yeager]

Heres my idea to solve not only the palistinian problem and the jewish problem, but all God related problems: just go dig a giant pit into the earth (or several depending on geography requirements)...maybe 5000 feet down.  Tell everyone that heaven is down at the bottom and if anyone is in such a hurry that they want to go to heaven RIGHT NOW, to go jump into the hole.  Maybe even make commercials showing little kids falling happily to heaven, if thats the particular twist of any particular God cult

I honestly think this idea would go along way towards improving life on earth for the rest of us.