Author Topic: Lincoln's 2nd Inaugural  (Read 1390 times)

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2006, 12:44:35 PM »
We need not expand this thread with a discussion on the cause of the civil war. I fully explained the correctness of my view and the complete ignorance of the opposing view in the other thread.:)
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2006, 02:23:00 PM »
We need not expand this thread with a discussion on the cause of the civil war. I fully explained the correctness of my view and the complete ignorance of the opposing view in the other thread. :)
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline lukster

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« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2006, 03:28:52 PM »
What was he saying here?  "the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."

What "Lord" was he referring to?

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2006, 06:46:32 PM »
It seems we argeed on something, Toad.   :D
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Offline Sandman

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« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2006, 07:05:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
yes sandie they most certainly were.   The war civil war did not stop them.  The civil war (and the loss by the south) was indeed the reason for them (why would you need jim crow laws if negroes had no rights anyway?)

Jim crow laws were bad for everyone as are all laws that try to "get' or "punish" one group by giving the government more power.

Allmost all modern gun control laws can be traced back to ignorant Jim Crow laws.

Slavery and discrimination are simply stupid ideas.   Stupid ideas are doomed to failure.   Forcing the issue allmost allways makes things worse (at least in the short term) and breeds biggotry.  

If there had been no civil war or if the south had won... we would not have slavery today.... we would probly have had less Jim Crow laws and a lot less backlash and biggotry and discrimination today.  We certainly would be a more free people on the whole with a less powerfull central government.

The civil war was a bad deal all around.

lazs


I'm not sure I follow...

If the South had won the civil war, blacks would have been treated better?
sand

Offline mietla

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« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2006, 07:23:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
If you are going to make a speech about why you had a bloody civil war that killed untold thousands...

You might want to stress some noble reason like slavery instead of the real reason of wanting to keep the union together even tho it was a gross trampling on states rights that would forever change the meaning of the contract between the people and the federal government and give the federal government much more power that it was ever meant to have.

It would seem that the above would make more sense than  anything else in light of the fact that when the war started lincoln said on more than one ocassion that if he could keep the union together by simply allowing slavery then he would have done so.

Slavery was on it's way out.  It woulda died out in a few more decades in any case.

Lincoln
FDR
LBJ

These presidents were the largest contributors to the destruction of the original constitution and contract between Americans and the government.  They did more to further socialism and destroy individualism than any others.  

lazs


Amen. Not many people would have a courage to express a view like that. PC and the rest of this rot, you know...

I've always been mistified with the legend/love/adoration given to Lincoln, FDR and (especially) LBJ. They were the worst presidents ever.

Clinton was just a wannabe, but fortunately, he was more of a potato than a politician. The damage he's dealt to this country was very significant, but had he not been an attetion potato, he could've done much more damage.


And no, I don't care about his BJs. I do care about missile guidance, nukes and ICBM info he gave to Chinese.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2006, 09:04:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
It seems we argeed on something, Toad.   :D


We agree on the fact that we have totally opposite views, I believe.  :)
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Offline Nash

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« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2006, 09:43:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Leslie
It's a bad thing he was assassinated because he didn't want the South to suffer Reconstruction the way it turned out.  Vindictive people in his administration wanted punishment for the South, and we got it to the tune of 130 years or so worth.  - Les


The South, from the civil war right on up to today, have been punished, eh? 130 years of it?

No wonder the South is pissed off and just can't seem to get over it. I'd be pissed off too; being, like, half of America and still being punished for something that happened 130 years ago.

When-oh-when will the punishment stop?!

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2006, 09:49:35 PM »
We're taking turns sending the South into "time out" and monitoring them so they don't act up again. They might call it punishment, but we think of it as tough love.

Offline Shuckins

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« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2006, 10:16:33 PM »
Well I suppose that the following facts are evidence of that tough love:

1.  Carpetbagger governments cut deals with northern railroads whereby southern land was given to those railroads in return for each mile of track laid.  

2.  Graft and kickbacks given by those companies to the corrupt carpetbagger/scalawag governments.

3.  Northern timber companies carting away half the timber harvested in the South in the decades after the war.

4.  Northern banking concerns and government officials buying up vast tracks of land for the paltry sum of paying the back taxes on the land, thereby forcing large numbers of poor white and black farmers to indenture themselves to the sharecropping system...as great an abomination as slavery had been.

5.  Massive state debt brought on by carpetbagger officials creating government programs in order to dispense largesse to kin and cronies.

Zip your pants and keep your tough love.

Offline Nash

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« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2006, 11:33:07 PM »
There is but one America.

Yet, you'd never guess it by listening to the folks residing in the Southern portion of it. I've raised the topic a few times here, and the resulting slugfest has usually led to the thread coming perilously close to lockage.

I'll try again.

Why can the South not manage to get over a war that happened well over a century ago? Why does it re-live that war on a seemingly daily basis? Why do they say that they have been punished ever since? Why do they continue to play the role of the victim of the United States so steadfastly, while at the same time being the first people to want to beat the snot out of anyone who burns its symbols?

We see the South's  bitterness through a myriad of things:

1) Attacks on politicians for hailing from a north east state. Last time I checked, they too were Americans. Or do you not see them as every bit as American as you? So why the automatic disdain? Are you just not over the war yet? Were your feelings hurt? Do you need another 130 years to get over it?

To sulk about it?

2) Attacks on education and universities. Yeah, like it's a bad thing to be educated. "Ohh no! More elitist educated shysters!" At this point I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that your southern boy president George Bush was born in Connecticut, went to high school in (gasp!) Massachusetts, then went on to Yale.

3) Attacks on the news media. Never mind the fact the press serves as (these days) the one remaining body who is still willing to provide a check on the government - as so carefully protected by the founders. Alas, in a free country - there is no alternative. I'm not sure what the Southerners would like it replaced with, but I'm pretty sure that a free press is better than Pravda. There was a guy on FOX the other day seriously proposing the formation of yet another government agency - A United States Bureau of Censorship. Kid you not. What - pray tell Southerns, would you have in a free press' stead?

4) Attacks on Hollywood. Who gives a crap? If a movie sounds interesting, go see it. If it doesn't? Stay home. All the hand wringing in the world won't change it, and yes - even people in the south pay good money to see them time and time again. It all just sounds like meaningless hysteria from you guys.

5) Attacks on science. This one totally baffles me. Schiavo's marvelous chances for recovery, anti-stem cell research, the Earth being created 6,000 years ago, the out of hand dismissal that six and a half billion people don't really effect the environment. In a perfect world, just what - exactly - would y'all have us believe?

6) Attacks on the government itself. This one in particular resonates with the south. Why would they trust a federal government when it's that same federal government that has inflicted so much pain - one hundred and thirty years worth of it - on the south? Instead, they vote for people who have nothing but disdain for government. No surprise then that the people that they elect have absolutely zero idea as to how to govern.

Watch as they rape the treasury. Watch as they commit their boys to a fiasco of a war. Watch as they run health care into the ground.Watch as they throw their hands up in the air and turn the keys over to one corporation after another. Watch as they sit there stupefied looking at the horror show that is their governance, only mustering the ability to legislate on such significant issues such as flags and gays and video games. They very literally are capable of nothing else.

Then watch as they sit back and say "See? Government sucks."

7) Attacks on Gays. Get a life.

Attack, attack, attack...

Bitter? Yeah, I think so.

On the weekend I heard this song on the radio. It was a country song. I like a ton of country, but this song was one of those recent songs that seems to resonate with the south and lead to album sales.

The guy was saying something like "I don't wear no baggy pants - I got blisters on my hands, I got no peircings, I'm a blue collar worker, I work hard, you bums don't, I'm a cowboy from the south and I basically can't stand you."

Or something very, very close to that. At least a few of yas must know the song I'm talking about.

Now..... Go ahead and point me to something on the charts that has anyone else even bothering with some kind of attack on southern culture.

Something like: "Horses are teh ghey, and what the hell is up with a cowboy hat anyway? I make my minimum wage in working in Dennys, and Texas is too hot for me."

As if.

Victimhood. Oh woe is me. A very southern trait, and one that is laser-beam focused on tearing the entire republic into shreds.

Happy Independance day.

So I guess the grand question is: What the hell is up with y'all feeling so damned victimized all the time? What causes you to lash out at and seek to destroy everything that makes America the great country that it is?

A war? 130 years ago?

Do you not feel that you're really part of America now? Can you not get over it?

And finally... Never mind for a second what it is that you don't like (lord knows we've heard enough):

What exactly would make you guys happy?
« Last Edit: July 04, 2006, 11:35:21 PM by Nash »

Offline FUNKED1

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« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2006, 11:40:54 PM »
*Looks skyward in awe*
Holy crap that is the biggest straw man I have ever seen.

Offline Nash

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« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2006, 11:42:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FUNKED1
*Looks skyward in awe*
Holy crap that is the biggest straw man I have ever seen.


I don't think so Funked. I could be wrong. Show me how?

Offline FUNKED1

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« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2006, 12:48:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Now..... Go ahead and point me to something on the charts that has anyone else even bothering with some kind of attack on southern culture.


Written and performed by a Kanukistani!

Offline Nash

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« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2006, 12:59:33 AM »
Heh. I'm just gonna salute your find, and the neat way that the 35 year-old song about the South was written by a Canadian. I reckon a kudos is in order.