Author Topic: Idea discussed at the con.  (Read 10307 times)

Offline KTM520guy

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Idea discussed at the con.
« Reply #120 on: July 07, 2006, 09:45:44 PM »
Oooops! double post. Sorry.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2006, 09:50:25 PM by KTM520guy »
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Offline MOIL

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Idea discussed at the con.
« Reply #121 on: July 07, 2006, 09:50:31 PM »
My take on the idea:(

I like the fact that HT has put it to the boards for discussion, and there has been some excellent ideas come up.

Fact one, it is almost impossible to stop the dive bombing Lanc's/B17's
Two, the porkers (done it myself) are also just as hard to stop or take down.
Three, there is no where near enough defenses at an airfield to prevent this (short of porking every base within 10 sectors) from happening.
Four, I have no problem with someone wanting to slow up a horde by removing the resourses from said field, however, this should be viewed as a very desprerate measure and the attacker should be met with a wall of AA fire that makes attacking a port seem like a walk in the park.

As stated by many MA goers the need for proper field defenses is long over due. There is no way to stop such Kamekazi's from from simply dropping 20,000 lbs of ord's at 100' off the ground.

The Ostwind, while somewhat effective in the AA dept is no match for such attackers. The complaint about why fields should never have veh's such as the Wirbelwind, 88's, 5" guns, Bofors 40mm's and twin & quad 20mm is borderline hilarious.
The attacker can shoot my turret out with HIS multi-gun 20 & 30mm cannons, rocket pods and bombs and I get to shoot back with a single 37mm slower firing gun????

my 2 cents

Offline NoBaddy

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Idea discussed at the con.
« Reply #122 on: July 07, 2006, 09:56:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by KTM520guy
So, in this example, a 51 or LA  MUST stop what he is doing and fight the opponent in front of him before dropping the ack or whatever? This kinda seems to me like you are telling others that can only play the way you want them too. To an extreme, that would be like HTC saying you can only fly Spit V's on Tuesdays.


Hmm, still trying to figure out how your analogy, in any way, fits the situation described. In no way does this attempt to force anyone to play the way I want them to. However, it would no longer reward them for gamey play. If people wish to continue playing suicide monkey...they can. But, their impact on the game would be great reduced by doing so.
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Offline MajWoody

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Idea discussed at the con.
« Reply #123 on: July 07, 2006, 09:58:24 PM »
I think it's a great idea. It will neuter some of the many pork & auger suicide dweebs.
Lets keep the stupid to a minimum.
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Offline nopoop

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Idea discussed at the con.
« Reply #124 on: July 07, 2006, 10:00:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by KTM520guy
So, in this example, a 51 or LA  MUST stop what he is doing and fight the opponent in front of him before dropping the ack or whatever?


If you think about it in the real world if the attacker DIDN'T stop what he was doing to fight off the 51 or Lala that would be suicide..

Wouldn't it ??

Hmmm..
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Offline KTM520guy

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Idea discussed at the con.
« Reply #125 on: July 07, 2006, 10:03:50 PM »
Sorry, I'm not the best at translating thoughts to words.

So you would rather somebody fight you as opposed to dropping the ack?
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Offline RTO

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Idea discussed at the con.
« Reply #126 on: July 07, 2006, 10:12:41 PM »
LOL  you got to be kidding!  Take a deep breath and think about what your contemplating.  How in the world would a pilot fly 20 min or more to a target drop his/her ord and then the effort be penalized because of a death.  So what if he/she dies after killing the target.  You won't bring back the denial of fuel to the enemy by targeting with ord but you are entertaining this silly idea?  Veh-base hangars are easily taken out by 1 passing buff and you won't sspread them out???  rambling i know..................bad bad idea.


I despise porking so why not just harden targets more and increase fld ack to hinder  or how about removing perk points for those that pork and auger.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2006, 10:15:16 PM by RTO »

Offline nopoop

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Idea discussed at the con.
« Reply #127 on: July 07, 2006, 10:32:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by KTM520guy
Sorry, I'm not the best at translating thoughts to words.

So you would rather somebody fight you as opposed to dropping the ack?


Another way to think of it. If you were being attacked by a fighter while attempting to kill ack in the real world ?

What would you do ??
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Offline Bruno

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Idea discussed at the con.
« Reply #128 on: July 07, 2006, 10:59:41 PM »
The way AH airfields and gameplay are laid out anyone who claims HT's solution is any more gamey then what is already apart of the gamey is delusional.

Remember this is a game.

Blowing up 2 FHs in real life didn't close down an airfield. Fuel and Ammo were not kept out in the open on the field and not at the same few spots on every field. Killing a 'barrack' didn't knock out all the troops etc...

That said no can deny the disproportionate impact one or 2 suicide bomber / jabos can have on the fun of many others (especially on CVs, not that I care I don't fly 'CV planes'). Too many folks are too willing to spend their game time killing themselves in pursuit of 'winning the war' or just to disrupt the fun of others.

That said I don't the suicide half-damage / time-out or whatever it is will make any difference to these guys. Is the point to change or modify game play behavior? Or is it just to stick something in to appease the complaints?

For suicide / dive-bombing bomber folks, just make it so you can only release bombs from the bomb aimers position. You don't need to perk bombs or formulate some mathematical numbers scheme to address this. Just force the player to be in the bomb aimer's position to release bombs. In conjunction with that re-vamp the bomb sight / bomb drop model. Make it so you have to 'dial in' altitude and speed. The choices now are laser guided bombs or the clumsy calibration method that is now turned off in the main.

You would hit one key to set speed up, another for to set speed down. One key to set altitude higher another lower and make bomb accuracy dependent on the bomb aimer keeping that speed and altitude while in the bomb aimer position. If he jumps position then force him to reset those those settings when he jumps back.  Make it so internal ordnance can damage your own bomber if you dive above certain angles.

For the suicide jabo / strat porker make it harder for him to kill certain strat objects (ammo and troops). Add a few more of each and set repair/rebuild time based on the % of that particular 'strat' killed. For example lets say there's 4 fuel depots. If all 4 (100%) are  down then they rebuild over the maximum down time. If just 1 is killed it rebuilds 75% faster then if all are killed, if 2 are killed they rebuild 50% faster etc...

This way the guy who augers in to kill one or two barracks may find those 2 re-built by the time he gets back to finish off the other 2 etc...

I personally don't care if some wants to kill himself over and over in pursuit of his fun. I don't care anything about the cries of how killing the cartoon out house is 'more real' then killing the cartoon airplane. I just would like to see things brought into better balance. One guy shouldn't be able to just fly a couple of auger missions and stop the fun of many others.

Any solution to address that will be 'gamey' to some one.

Offline KTM520guy

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Idea discussed at the con.
« Reply #129 on: July 07, 2006, 11:09:57 PM »
I would break off from my anti ack mission and give the attacking fighter my attention. But that's just me. I can't speak for others.

Basicly this idea is a way to force a certain style of game play.
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Offline E25280

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Re: Idea discussed at the con.
« Reply #130 on: July 07, 2006, 11:13:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
At the con we were discussing changing building down times based on how long you lived after destroying a target.

After doing some detailed thinking about it, relized the down time is problematic when mutliple people have hit a targe. But was wondering what people thought of the following.

Based on how long you lived after hiting a target, currently im thinking around 2 minutes. If you die a portion of your damage is removed.

As an example 2 people drop bombs on a hangar. 1 does 2k damage, the last does 1k damage and destroys the hangar.

The 2nd player dies after 1 min. The system would remove 1min/2min i.e. 50% of the damgage aplied to the hangar. The hangar would then reserect with 2.5k damage left on it.


Thoughts?

HiTech
I really, really really do not like the "jack in the box" hanger.  Seems to me a better solution is that, in your example, 3000lbs kills hanger.  Hanger does not pop until 3000lbs damage is "repaired" at a rate of 200lbs per minute (i.e. 15 minutes).  Lets keep your 2 minute time limit.  If someone who did 1000lbs of damage dies at 1 minute, then his 1000lbs damage is halved.  Apply then the 500lbs to the "repair time", i.e. deducts 2.5 minutes from the total downtime.

In this way, a "dive bombing lanc" does the required 3000lbs of damage, but is destroyed by his own explosion, the hanger is destroyed, but nearly instantly pops.  If a "legit" bomber did 1000lbs damage before the lancs dive-bombed, the downtime of the object would only be 5 minutes.

Thus, in a coordinated assault of 3 Jabos carrying 1000lbs of ord each, the entire team would not be penalized just because one of them got picked by the ack as he climbed away after completing the mission.  The hanger is still down (mission accomplished) but at a reduced rate (10 mins instead of 15).

[aside]If you really wanted to get mean, you could allow subsequent bomb drops on an already destroyed hanger to increase the downtime using this method.  That would make bases truly suppressible and encourage people to up from an adjacent field rather than sit in the tower waiting for a hanger to pop.[/aside]

Bolded for emphasis -- The whole "jack in the box" concept would hurt game play IMO. Consider this example -- it would very much discourage anyone who was just strafing down the last building in town from trying to intercept the enemy LA 7 that just upped.  He is in a no win situation.  He can try to defend the goon, but then the LA7 needs only HO and kill him to get a building to instantly pop -- ruined capture.  The other alternative is to let the LA 7 kill your goon -- again, ruined capture.  He was already a team player by strafing down the town.  Now you discourage team play by encouraging him to avoid a fight to protect his goon.  By reducing downtime instead of making the building automatically pop, if the good guy dies, the troops on station still have a few minutes to make it into the map room before the building he just strafed pops.  Even if he lived only 12 seconds, that is 10% of two minutes, which means the building will be down about 4 minutes.
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Offline NoBaddy

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Idea discussed at the con.
« Reply #131 on: July 07, 2006, 11:27:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by KTM520guy

Basicly this idea is a way to force a certain style of game play.


Again...you are incorrect. It does not "force" style of game play. What it does make the reward for a certain type of game play less....doesn't mean it can't still be done.
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Offline KTM520guy

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Idea discussed at the con.
« Reply #132 on: July 07, 2006, 11:48:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by NoBaddy
Again...you are incorrect. It does not "force" style of game play. What it does make the reward for a certain type of game play less....doesn't mean it can't still be done.


It indeed does force style of play. You are saying if I couldn't fly into a base, pork it and get away, that anything I did manage to take out would pop back up thus making my sortie null and void. It's a punishment for even attempting to pork. Why even try unless you are certain of a 100% successfull outcome.
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Offline nopoop

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Idea discussed at the con.
« Reply #133 on: July 07, 2006, 11:58:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by KTM520guy
Why even try unless you are certain of a 100% successfull outcome.


LOL KT if I needed to be certain to be successful why am I most of the time low man on the pile in a furball ?

If I certain of a 100% successful outcome, it would be watching paint dry.

It's not the outcome in those situations, it's the journey.
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Offline KTM520guy

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Idea discussed at the con.
« Reply #134 on: July 08, 2006, 12:02:22 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by nopoop


If I certain of a 100% successful outcome, it would be watching paint dry.

 


Hey man, don't bag on watching paint dry. I do that for a living. LOL

:rofl :D
Everything King Midas touches turns to gold. Everything Chuck Norris touches turns up dead.