Do ET's exist?

[Sandman]

"It is likely that the meeting of two alien civilizations will lead to the subordination of one by the other." - D. K. Stern, 1975

[Thrawn]

Bah, they got a computer.  Stuck an AI in it.  Had it design a more powerful computer.  Repeat.  The whole Moores law thing.  

Have the AI do other research, in a very short time you have all the answers to the unvierse.  

The aliens leave behind there bodies and become energy.  Cripes how far away do you think humans are from reaching this state.

[funkedup]

I think there is a theorem that a computer (or a brain) can not design (or fully comprehend) a computer (or brain) which is more complex than itself.

Also, if you think about how we define god(s), I think an incredibly powerful alien with abilities far beyond our own would be hard to distinguish from a god.  They made a movie on that topic, 2001:  Space Odyssey.

[miko2d]

That does not sound reasonable. The recipy according to which our brain is created - the genetic code encrypted in DNA and processed by a biological analog of a computer is only magabytes. At the same time complexity of a brain is expressed in numbers many orders of magnitude higher.

 A simple computer program can produce enourmously more complex data. So a reasinably-complex computer and software could produce a very-complex system. Add a bit of randomness, simulation of what we know about organisation and function of the brain and evolution and who knows where it leads.

 It may not be analog to a human brain, but on the comparable level of complexity.
 Of course it may be argued that this process may not be strictly referred to as "design"...

 miko

[Saurdaukar]

Originally posted by Apache

[funkedup]

Originally posted by miko2d
Of course it may be argued that this process may not be strictly referred to as "design"...

Yes.

To fully simulate (and design) a human body, you need a computer which is much more complex than the one needed to store the DNA sequence.  You need a computer with a register for every quantum state of every atom in the body.  Which makes the computer obviously at least as complex as the human body.

A relatively simple computer could deal with the DNA sequence.  But to determine the effects of changes in the DNA sequence (the basis of the design process) you need a computer with sufficient complexity to analyze the whole body.

[funkedup]

Same goes for computers.  Let's say I'm simulating a computer with 64k RAM.  To fully simulate this computer, my simulation requires a computer with at least 64k RAM.  64k RAM just to represent the RAM in the computer being simulated, plus more memory for the overhead of running the simulation.

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Shuckins, I was thinking Noah and the Ark.

Then there was the whole deal with the plagues and other such things. Locusts destroying the land, frogs falling from the skies.
-SW

[Apache]

Originally posted by Saurdaukar

[Mathman]

Originally posted by Thrawn
If aliens exist then they don't take an active role in life.

"It would be very egotistical for us to believe "

Oh okay, because it's EGOTISTICAL for one believe that aliens don't exist then aliens exist??

Beautiful logic there.  LOL  

I guess I don't understand what you are saying.

Oh well, I guess it would be pointless for me to also state that I think it is incredibly egotistical of us to think that aliens would actually find us interesting enough to take an active interest in.

Do I think there are aliens out there?  Sure, why not?  Do I think all these people that are getting "abducted" really are?  Probably not.

Even more important:
Do I really give a rat's bellybutton if there are aliens?  Not in the least*

*unless of course the aliens turn out to be like the ones in Independence Day, then I will burn those little (or big) toejams to the ground and rape their female aliens (assuming they have sexes like we do) on their burned carcasses while smoking a fat cigar in their crazy cool spaceships and blowing up their mothership by using a Macintosh.  If those little turds look like ET, I will eat their glowing hearts (assuming they have a circulatory system similar to ours and their blood is not acid like those bugs in the Aliens movies) while their last bit of life drains out their big gaping wounds caused by my big bellybutton BFG from Quake.  If the aliens are like those lamer Ewoks from Star Wars, I will kill them, grill them, eat them, and then hunt down George Lucas for creating such a stupid menace that is only marginally worse than his greatest blunder, Jar Jar.  If they are like Mr. Spock, I will show him naked pictures of Rosie O'Donnel naked and ask him if logic can explain that.  Then I will drink his blood after his head explodes trying to explain it.  Now, if those aliens are like the aliens in Aliens, I will run for my life and die tired.  Those things scare the piss out of me.

[H. Godwineson]

MT,

Can't totally agree with your statement about there being little chance of civilizations that have advanced beyond radio-wave technology.

According to Alan Guth, one of the leading physicists of our time, the Big Bang which created our universe was the result of a false vacuum.  This theory is accepted by the scientific community as fact.  

However, cosmologists Andrei Linde, Alexander Vilenkin, and others have expanded the premises of the false vacuum which led to our inflationary universe.  They speculate that the decay of the false vacuum does not happen at once.  While some regions decay into universes, other regions keep expanding and creating other universes.  Residual false vacuum from the creation of those universes creates still others, indefinitely.  They call this the "eternally existing, self-reproducing inflationary universe."  Guth contends that this scenario is not only possible, it seems like a sure thing.  He predicts that "any cosmological theory that does not lead to the eternal reproduction of universes will be considered as unimaginable as a species of bacteria that cannot reproduce."

Guth further states that inflationary universes need not be natural.  In his view, an advanced race could harness the engines of inflation and create a whole cosmos from scratch.  It is possible, therefore, that our universe could be such a creation.  This would seem to negate the idea that time began with the creation of our own universe and also raises a number of questions about the "continuing" evolution of life.  There is, for instance, the possibility that certain civilizations have advanced beyond "radio wave technology."

What do you think?

Regards, Shuckins

[midnight Target]

Cool stuff Shuckins.

I was commenting directly on the Drake equation however.

I will look into that though, thanks.

[mrfish]

Originally posted by H. Godwineson
This theory is accepted by the scientific community as fact.  

no, it's not accepted as "fact". if you're going to speak on behalf of the scientific community you should be more careful about your wording. even the higgs field isn't accepted as "fact".

[Zapk1n]

the little grey men are simply humans from our future. That is why they have the huminoid form and are also beyond secretive in their nature. They may be historians or anthropologists from the earth a couple of hundred million years into the future.

still sounds ridiculous doesnt it?

How about aliens with lifespans in the tens of thousands of years, or hundreds of thousands of years (who knows the limitations of life on some alien world), with a life span like that (and God only knows what perception of the passing of time) travelling at light speed might not be such a slow pace to get somewhere.

also pretty fantastic eh?

actually there is this all knowing being that directs and instructs humankind in every little thing they do and think. (or so my fundamentalist christian friends seem to think)

also pretty ridiculous eh?

Or maybe you guys might want to check out the multiuniverse theory that some physicists are into.

also pretty far out....

who was it that said "the only thing i know for sure...is that I know nothing for sure"? or something along those lines???

musta been a pretty clever fella.