School teachers

[Simaril]

Originally posted by Sandman
From "For The Common Defense" by Allan R. Millett & Peter Maslowski:

"The Japanese government sensed Russia's new policy when it tried to find some third party to negotiate peace with the Allies after April 1945."

"An Allied declaration from Potsdam threatened the Japanese with worse war but also hinted at a negotiated settlement. The Japanese repsponse was equally subect to misinterpretation. Although the Japanese intent was to explore the terms, the American government thought the response a contemptuous declaration of continued war."

Sandy....


Suggest you also check out Downfall by Frank and Hirohito and the Making of Modern Japan by Bix.

Both these are written with extensive access to Japanese archives. Bix's book is particularly interesting because its based on Hirohito's very recently unsealed diaries.

Bottom line: while many have opposed the use if the bomb based on Japan's helplessness and apparent "peace" getures, those gestures were NOT what the anti-nuclear activist would wish. There was NO evidence of willingness to accept unconditional surrender, and overtures to third countries were made with the specific goal of preserving Japanese governmental structures even after defeat.

At the end of a Second World War that many felt grew out of the mismanaged end of the First, there was simply NO WAY that Japanese preconditions would be accepted, adn so NO CHANCE that peace could be negotiated with Hirohito on the throne.

[lasersailor184]

After class walking in the hall I had 4 kids, all about a year younger then me, shake my hand and thank me for serving our country. Ive had adults do this before but never a teenager.

You would be surprised at the gaining conservative movement on campuses across the country.  I'd say my campus was split about 50-50 liberal to conservative.  

It's only about 5% of the total population that are foaming at the mouth radicals of either side.

Unfortunately, most of the professors who use their position to put out political viewpoints are bullies.  They try to use their place as a higher standing, to talk over and to redicule anyone who questions them.  But like any bully, they back down with a good strong kick to the face by someone who is better then them (metaphorically speaking that is).

Anyway, unluckily (or possibly luckily based on your point of view) I have had no teachers in about 7 semesters of college who were foaming at the mouth about any political viewpoints.  I dream about smashing down a professor who decides that politics are more important then teaching.  But, I think my school has done a great job to make sure that hasn't happened.

[BlueJ1]

Its a highschool class. Im taking it in summer school to go for a advanced regents diploma instead of the regular one.

[cpxxx]

This all reminds me of some of my own school days and teachers. There were always the liberal teachers and the reactionary teachers. I remember in history class my friend John who was a bit of a republican, an Irish republican that is, IRA etc. He used to get into ridiculous arguments with the teacher. He would espouse fiery anti British actions and pro IRA statements. She would argue back. The rest of the class would just sit there bored.  What was interesting was that despite his anti British palaver. He had no problem with one of our classmates who was only staying in school until he was old enough to join the Royal Navy. The British Royal Navy that is!

Another teacher at first seemed the reasonable type, was young even dressed cool. Then he opened his mouth and it turned out to be a right wing reactionary religious zealot. He seemed to hate us teenagers. He was scary and was soon hated.

Another had taught in a rough US high school. He used to tell us stories of guns and knives in the class. He used to explain how he never turned his back on the class even when writing on the blackboard.

Our favourite teacher though was a no nonsense American who used to cover our religion class. Now the problem, as he admitted himself, that he was in fact an atheist.  Ireland being Ireland, it seems there was no conflict in putting an atheist in charge of the religious class:O  He got round it by reading extracts from Micheal Moorcock novels, which are quasi spiritual of sorts.  Much more entertaining than boring old religion.
He did it for years, my brother was ten years younger than me and went to the same school after I left. He was still there, still not teaching religion to the religion class.

The school library was interesting. It contained a couple of copies of Mein Kampf and Communist literature side by side. How many school libraries have copies of Mein Kampf? The Communist stuff arrived after the Soviet Embassy was invited to give a lecture on Soviet history. It was delivered in the hall by a nervous sweaty 'cultural attache'. It told us nothing we didn't know. The Russian Revolution was extensively studied in our history classes. There were a lot of tough questions from the floor afterwards and he got progressively sweatier and often consulted another colleague who we assumed was a KGB agent .  Afterwards he didn't wait for tea and biscuits or another interrogation but fled for the safety of the Soviet embassy.

Ah happy days!

[Maverick]

The most popular teacher in my old high school for more than 2 decades was a guy by the name of Rip DePascal. He is still being talked about 30+ years later. He taught American History.  He was a B26 Pilot in WW2. He was a great teacher and a very good man.

[Leslie]

My Geography (geography of Europe) teacher in college brought a flounder gig to class first couple times.  I was in my mid thirties, a non-trad student.  I said something about it finally and he quit bringing it.  One time he started about Dresden, and I spoke up immediately and said I was tired of the Allies getting all the blame and said Dresden was a legitimate target and if he was to blame someone blame the Germans.  He disagreed but didn't press the issue.

He moved on the lecture and didn't mention it again.   Made an A in the class and we had no problems.  Of course I wore my hunting outfit to class a couple times...boots, camo suit and orange coat, because I was going hunting right after class.  This was right before Europe was to unite (1990) and start using the Euro as currency.  The prof made regular trips to Ireland and England, so I figured he knew his stuff.  But he wasn't used to students speaking up.  Most of the students in that class were around 18.  He wasn't a bad guy though.





Les

[Vudak]

I had a geography of Europe teacher last semester.  I found him to be an amazing guy.  He's from England, the only person from a very small town to actually go on to college.  He's travelled the world, speaks a few languages (English, German, Russian), has lived for extended periods of time in numerous countries ranging from USA/Canada to many Euro nations to way out there former USSR nations I can't even pronounce much less spell.  His father was in the British 8th Army fighting Rommel in Afrika, and he relayed many interesting stories.

He'd let us debate about topics ranging from the IRA to the European Welfare State.  He'd present as devil's advocate for both sides of any given debate in the same session, and he'd make fun of just about everyone.  I honestly have no idea where his political views are, because he never tried to force anything down our throats.  About the only thing I know for sure, is he hates British wine and Venice's pidgeons.

In sum, he's the most worldly and fair, hell, I'd say best, professor I've ever had.

I came on these boards and tried to talk about a few things I'd learned in class, and was promptly told that I had been completely brainwashed and he was a liberal [insert "clever" taunt here].

Basically just typed this story to tell you, BlueJ, there are some good ones out there.  You have to hang in there with the bad ones.  If college should teach you one thing, it should be that sometimes in life it is better to bite your tongue and smile and nod rather than speak up and cause a big fuss for yourself.  You'll get alot further in life by controlling your temper and whatnot then by constantly fighting battles that don't need to be fought.  Save your anger for when you really need it.

Then again, your teacher was clearly a total salamander.  I'd say bring in that recorder and maybe have a meeting with his department chair.  Make sure to have an appointment though.  You want to seem as professional as possible in contrast to this idiot (it shouldn't be hard).

-----

Side note - you know, someday I will be a history teacher at a highschool or college.  I'm going to have to teach the events that are unfolding right now.  How the heck I'm going to do that fairly, I have no idea.  It will be pretty hard talking about 9/11 and not letting my contempt for the hijackers show.  But, in the interest of fairness, it can't.

[Rolex]

History ends with an event; everything written subsequent to it is marred in some way by speculation or agenda.

A true and accurate accounting of any complex event is hard to find, since the intention and mindset of the participants is never known. The key players may never give a true accounting of their thought process.

The truth usually lies somewhere in the middle of both sides version of events.

Would the allies have suffered a million casualties? It doesn't seem reasonable unless every person is counted as a casualty twice.

37 divisions were earmarked for possible invasion. That's only about 550,000 men.

The million man casualty number was used by two people - MacArthur and Truman. MacArthur used it because he wanted the Allies to accept the surrender being offered by the Japanese through the Swiss. The same conditions the Japanese offered were the conditions proclaimed and set after the war.

Truman was under terrific political attacks for the tactical blunder of Iwo Jima by representatives of families of servicemen killed and wounded there, even by military men within the War Department. Many said it was an avoidable slaughter for an island that had little use, made worse by a frontal assault made in haste and continued in bull-headedness.

The island was blockaded, the Japanese soldiers were near starvation, two to three weeks of bombardment by sea and air would have dessimated and contained them there without the need for 20,000 American casualties. Truman was facing Congressional investigations about Iwo Jima and also the use of the atomic bombs.

Five out of the six 5-star rank officers went on record as saying the use of the atomic bombs was unecessary for the war effort. Only Gen. Marshall, the Washington D.C. 5-star general, agreed with its use.

The remainder said that the war was essentially over after Okinawa and the total blockade of Japan was starving the military and the civilian population since Japan did not have the capacity to feed itself. No fuel, no steel, cities and the industrial base was devasted, and continuing to be destroyed piece by piece, day by day, as the Allies controlled the skies over Japan. Most commanders thought the war would be finished by Autumn without the need for an invasion.

You can believe whatever version of history you want to believe, but reading only one version will not likely lead you to understanding anything closer to the truth. The "truth" is never certain because war is politics gone mad, and politics is war, a part of war, and a part of the stories we call history.

{added} I want to add that I am in no way endorsing anything that your teacher has supposedly said. All we have here is an unnamed person talking about what an unnamed person supposedly said. And that is why I said at the very top of the tread that I find it all a little fishy.

[Reynolds]

I had a crappy teacher this year too. I tried to be nice and all, but he TRIED to fail me. He was my woodshop teacher, and he approved all my designs, and then the day before it was due told me to start all over. there was no way to finish in time, and im lucky i got a D.

[Leslie]

Did you do the work?  Sounds like an art class.  Some of them are tough.





Les

[lasersailor184]

Would the allies have suffered a million casualties? It doesn't seem reasonable unless every person is counted as a casualty twice.

The two million casualty estimate numbers included the japanese as well.  The emperor would literally have given everyone a pointed stick and marched them to the beach to fight the invaders.  And what is more, the japs would have been glad to do what the emperor says.

So, considering that 95% of the japanese would have fought the invaders on the beach, 2 mil casualties (casualty doesn't literally mean death) sounds reasonable.

[lazs2]

yeah rolex...  the japs were not cruel people who would ever think of fighting to last man or suicide attacks or of butchering pow's....

How could anyone think that these gentle paper folders and flower arrangers would be part of a whole island being killed off to allmost the last man?

read your own damn history.  The five generals you talk about all wanted to invade.   This is not an uncommon trait in generals especially in WWII and especialy in a war that was all but won with all the resources in the world to play with.   I imagine that they felt that the A bomb robbed em.   There are plenty of generals who will say that bombing of any kind is not needed.

lazs

[Reynolds]

Originally posted by lazs2
yeah rolex...  the japs were not cruel people who would ever think of fighting to last man or suicide attacks or of butchering pow's....

How could anyone think that these gentle paper folders and flower arrangers would be part of a whole island being killed off to allmost the last man?

read your own damn history.  The five generals you talk about all wanted to invade.   This is not an uncommon trait in generals especially in WWII and especialy in a war that was all but won with all the resources in the world to play with.   I imagine that they felt that the A bomb robbed em.   There are plenty of generals who will say that bombing of any kind is not needed.

lazs

Hell, there are witnesses that saw the EAT POWs. They thought it would give them bravery. And Leslie, yes i did all the work. But every time, a day before it was do, he made me start over. He waited weeks sometimes just to make sure i didnt have enough time to finish!

[lazs2]

eating a few POW's does not make them bad people...

Where is your compassion?   Heck... they bow and fold paper and stuff.

And... you can make a bundle sucking up to em.

lazs

[Reynolds]

lol. Hell, George H. W. Bush might care! It was HIS squad-mates that got eaten!