Author Topic: Move Zig, for Great Justice!  (Read 846 times)

Offline WilldCrd

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« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2006, 12:01:52 AM »
I remember reading (not exactly sure where) that N.K. has an estimated 2-5 nukes
it was also unclear wether they were strictly missile warheads or bombs.
Tactically its alot smarter for them to have any nukes as a bomb to be carried by a fighter/bomber A/C since their missiles leave much to be desired at this time.

All them anti-missiles systems are effectivly useless against a bomb "lobed" into japan.
As for S.K. 900,000 stong army add 1 N.K. nuke....well alot less than 900k i should think

as stated previously this will be VERY interesting to watch!
so many intricate and different variables.
I have found that asian tactics and stratagy very intriuging.

I read a janes defense artical a few months back (ill try to dig it up) that played out a scenerio where N.K. test fired a missile and "intentionally" had it malfunction so that the west and actually the rest of the world assumed that they couldnt effectivly launch a nuclear warhead at a target such as japan or even the west coast of the U.S. when in fact they could.
the artical gave several outcomes after such an event. True N.K. vs the U.S. in a nuclear exchange would loose BUT, at what cost? and would the U.S. retailiate with nuclear weapons knowing that N.K. probably had only 1 shot?

It goes on about different lines of thought but, at the end the real kicker was this "The idea of faking a failed missile test launch is the kind of think the N.K. would think up to catch everyone else off gaurd"

And consider this they test fired 4 missiles? And ALL of em failed?
1 long range and 3 med range missiles?
kinda seems coincidental to me. I still think there was more to the story than what was reported.
1 Missile test fired and failing...yeah i can see that easy but...4? :O
Crap now I gotta redo my cool sig.....crap!!! I cant remeber how to do it all !!!!!

Offline Rolex

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« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2006, 01:42:17 AM »
First off, while a lot of this is being hyped by the press, there a few things that are different than the usual and predictable unpredictablity of the Kim Jong-Il and his father. The offspring is using the same tactics his father used, since they have always worked. Not always worked well, but worked good enough.

Being a raving lunatic leader displaying choreographed media events to further the image that his subjects are raving lunatics who will happily give their life for the raving lunatic has always been met with negotiated face saving for the lunatic, and under the table currency/trade to feed the starving lunatics.

He always looks like the savior. Keep someone starving then distributing even small amounts of food will raise you to Messiah material.

The things that bother me are:

1. A new breed and path of leadership in Japan. Koizumi has always been a domestic politician first and last, to the bitter end, and much of his power is derived from the right wing in Japan. The right wing in Japan is nothing like the right wing in any other country. These are guys who are still fighting the war and still believe in the divinity of the emperor. Scary stuff.

The man divorced his pregnant wife decades ago because the party told him to. She wasn't any good at campaigning because she had two children and a third on the way.

He is so dedicated to himself, that he has refused to even meet the adult son who was born after the divorce. Now that is a politician...

Abe, the likely successor, is reported to be, and shows all the traits of, a dunce. If you think President Bush may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but likeable, this guy Abe looks like an unlikeable butter knife.

Literally, the guy is so below average intelligence that you could pick anyone off the train and he'd be smarter than Abe. But Abe has all the traditional hallmarks of leadership potential for Japan: A family history of politics and support from the right wing still fighting the war.

Most of the Japanese leaders in the past 50 years have been at least practical. Some were scoundrels, like all countries, but practical scoundrels. They knew enough to let behind-the-scenes negotiation be the real solutions and sprinkling some money around is easy. It's only money and you can print more of it. Let the country get on with the business of Japan, which is doing business.

So, I'm not too happy about Abe because dunces can be easily led. Something tells me that he is being led by the nose right now. It could be internally, externally, or both.

2. The Foreign Minister, Aso, is truly a scoundrel. He is pushing for offensive capability... to use defensively. The problem with Aso is his history. His father ran a lethal mining company during the war. Lethal for the allied POWs who had to work as slaves there in horrendous conditions. They were starved, forced to work in the most dangerous mines where no paid worker would go and were beaten and abused and left to die if they became ill or injured. Aso is still part of the family business and is one of the extremists who insists Japan was fighting a just cause. He and his family have shown no remorse over their history and actually seem to enjoy tweaking the noses of Koreans and others in Asia by throwing out insults to them that fly in the face of reason and history.

What scares me about him is that he is smart. Smart extremists are scary - dumb ones can be toppled off their nonsense horses.

This guy makes Secretary Rice look as tough as Aunt Bea in fluffy slippers and an apron.

3. The constitutional question will likely become moot. Article 9 will likely be changed soon and it has only been words anyway. Japan has the 4th largest military budget in the world. Not bad for a nation with no military.

What it lacks is long range offensive capability - missiles. It has plenty of tanks, armoured vehicles, artillery, fighters, destroyers, etc.

----------

So what will happen? I won't make any predictions, but I don't like the increase in risks that come from having a dunce and blinkered extremist making foreign policy. People are more likely to get killed when that happens.

I think Korea is doing their usual saber rattling and expect to get something in return - food, respect, money... they're not doing anything different than they have always done.

The talk of strong economic sanctions will only exacerbate the problem. Sanctions just don't work as intended.

North Korea may have a few devices and they would most likely work. Delivery ability is sketchy, as shown by the missile tests. I think Dear Leader's son is tweaking Americas nose a bit and enjoying it. But I don't believe that he is lunatic enough to commit suicide by actually trying to deliver one. He's too much of a hedonist.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2006, 01:48:23 AM by Rolex »

Offline Squire

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« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2006, 04:49:26 AM »
Japan has one of the worlds most modern Navies, second only to the USN in the Pacific region.

It has a sizable, well trained air force.

Both with modern weapons and systems.

Although I doubt Japan would consider a strike on N. Korea any time soon, for all the obvious geo-political ramifications, dont dismiss them as some paper tiger. They are not.

I would also be carefull about assuming that they had no capability to hit N. Korean missile sites if they really wanted to. They have combat ships, subs, and fighters capable of air refuelling.

Read:

http://www.afa.org/magazine/june2005/0605japan.asp

Map:

http://z.about.com/d/geography/1/0/l/3/ja-150.gif

The last paragraph of the article is illustrative:

For years, Washington has been prodding its quiet ally in the Pacific to finally step forward into the ranks of the great powers. The time has come, US officials insist, for Tokyo to assume responsibilities and duties in the region and around the world that are more commensurate with Japan’s great wealth and influence. Now, the message coming back across the Pacific, while characteristically softly spoken, is nevertheless unmistakable: “We’re ready.”

...or to parahprase "All Your Taepodong Missile Bases Are Belong To Us"
« Last Edit: July 11, 2006, 05:08:55 AM by Squire »
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Offline eagl

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« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2006, 05:20:56 AM »
I hope nobody shoots back at NK...

At least until I'm out of here.

Sucks to live within range of long-range artillery.

Yea we're "ready to fight tonight" but that doesn't mean we really want to.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2006, 08:22:11 AM »
so rolex...you are saying that the japs are not too far away from bayoneting babies and forceing korean women into prostitution again?

I guess that would not be much of a leap....lots who did that are still alive today.

lazs

Offline 101ABN

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« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2006, 09:04:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by eagl
I hope nobody shoots back at NK...

At least until I'm out of here.

Sucks to live within range of long-range artillery.

Yea we're "ready to fight tonight" but that doesn't mean we really want to.


Where are you at over there?

Offline GtoRA2

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« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2006, 10:02:49 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by eagl
I hope nobody shoots back at NK...

At least until I'm out of here.

Sucks to live within range of long-range artillery.

Yea we're "ready to fight tonight" but that doesn't mean we really want to.



If the poopy hits the fan do you get to jump back into a fighter or do they hand you a rifle and a shovel, and you just keep doing what your doing now?

Offline eagl

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« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2006, 10:51:36 AM »
I'm at Osan AB, just a hop, skip, and a jump South of Seoul.  If the shxt hit the fan, my job would be general purpose butt-boy action officer.  That means my current job has no wartime equivalent so I'd get tasked as a generic staff officer.

If I lived more than a few minutes after fights-on, that is.

The fighter squadrons are fully manned so it's highly unlikely I'd be reassigned to a flying job, unless something unusual happened and they had to bust all the normal assignment rules.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2006, 11:10:41 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GtoRA2
If the poopy hits the fan do you get to jump back into a fighter or do they hand you a rifle and a shovel, and you just keep doing what your doing now?


Sorry but there's somthing sort of funny/scary when I hear USAF/Officer/rifle/shovel all in the same statement.

NOT to say that Eagl is "one of those types"


BTW eagl I've thoroughly enjoyed having a couple of USAFA cadets here for their summer internship program.  Great bunch of kids!  10 more days till I get my hat sir  :aok

Offline eagl

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« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2006, 11:38:01 AM »
Good to hear they're sending cadets out there.

I think I'd do just fine with a rifle and shovel if necessary, but I'd rather leave that to the experts.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline Furious

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« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2006, 11:38:38 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rolex
...Japan has the 4th largest military budget in the world. Not bad for a nation with no military.

What it lacks is long range offensive capability - missiles. It has plenty of tanks, armoured vehicles, artillery, fighters, destroyers, etc...


We know all about Japan's military gear.  We have seen it in the movies and it does nothing to stop godzilla on a rampage.  


...aim for the eyes, dammit.

Offline Makarov9

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« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2006, 11:57:38 AM »
Yea, but those lightning shooting tanks are bad-ass.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2006, 12:01:05 PM by Makarov9 »

Offline Jackal1

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« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2006, 07:44:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Furious
We know all about Japan's military gear.  We have seen it in the movies and it does nothing to stop godzilla on a rampage.  


...aim for the eyes, dammit.


Phhfttt! That was back in the days before the highly classified Stepford Zillaette project.



:D
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline Squire

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« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2006, 08:13:49 AM »
MechaGodzilla could withstand a N. Korean nuke. :aok
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Offline Suave

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« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2006, 08:25:41 AM »
Jeeze, like south korean's needed another reason to dislike Japan.

South Korea is one place a soldier can go downrange without leaving his quarters.