Dropping landing gear in close combat?

[Slash27]

Originally posted by Morpheus
I did have a film of them doing ground attack runs with gear down. Which I bleive is what they were mostly used for... Ground attack.

Seen those or similar films too. What was the purpose of dropping the gear in that situation anyway? For a more precise strike on the position?

[SkyRock]

Many times I shoot a hog down when I'm on his six and see his gear deployed.  It always makes me chuckle.  Gear need only be deployed to force an overshoot in a dive.  To be honest, I never put gear down while fighting in a corsair.  Any slowing down can be easily done with rudder(hog has one of the biggest) and flaps and quite frankly you'll need the E to keep him in gun range when he passes or for the fight on the second pass.  The only time that I ever see it being done wisely, is when your at the top of the stalll with the guy and you drop out first, then drop gear and stay out of his guns until he passes by.  This would be more historically accurate as well being that the gear was intended to be used as DIVE breaks(remember the hog was a very heavy plane and it could gain very high dive speeds).  Blukitty is one of the best at using this properly.  Also it was mentioned that it works well in rolling scissors but I would say no to that to as you need your E in rolling scissors and you just use the angles to stay out of his guns.

[FiLtH]

It works.

[Vudak]

One quick word of warning though, if you're gonna mess around with the gear, remember you messed around with the gear.  Can't tell you how many times I look down and see three green dots when I didn't want them.  Either hit the button three times by accident or just forgot, it'll get you in trouble quick

[straffo]

pfffffffffffffffff ....

On the actual plane, the landing gear handle had a dive brake position in addition to the extended and retracted positions.  The dive brake position would extend the main gear but not the tailwheel because the tailwheel doors were not rated for high speeds.  In Aces High, the separate dive brake position is not used.  You only need to extend your landing gear as normal.  The high speeds will not damage the tailwheel doors.

from http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/models/f4u1d.html

But I don't know if this source is really credible !

[Saxman]

Actually, I've dropped gear as high as 450 to almost 500mph with no problems. Kicking the gear out also seems to improve the Hog's instantaneous turn, and has been noted helps the Corsair get her flaps out earlier.

As to why they dropped their doors on ground attacks:

Think of it as the same reason they installed dive breaks on the SBD: To keep the dive speed down and make the plane more responsive in an attack run.

[Waffle]

One thing I found interesting was that the F6F was capable of using it's gear as a dive brake also. Haven't checked in-game to see what speeds you can deploy it though.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Kweassa
I sincerely doubt there's any 'historic validity' in dumping gears for combat purposes.

Actually, there is.  The F4U's gear were designed to be used as airbrakes as I understand it.

I also know that the Mosquito's airbrake frill was abandoned after tests showed that dropping the landing gear had the same effect.  I have heard of them jamming when dropped at over 300mph on occasion too.

[Wilbus]

Originally posted by Karnak
Actually, there is.  The F4U's gear were designed to be used as airbrakes as I understand it.

I also know that the Mosquito's airbrake frill was abandoned after tests showed that dropping the landing gear had the same effect.  I have heard of them jamming when dropped at over 300mph on occasion too.

Like I said before... the landing gear doors were used as airbrakes and activated by another switch. The gears didn't actually extend when the switch/lever was triggered.

This is modelled on the same key in AH though.

[Vudak]

Originally posted by Wilbus
Like I said before... the landing gear doors were used as airbrakes and activated by another switch. The gears didn't actually extend when the switch/lever was triggered.

This is modelled on the same key in AH though.

Every time a thread like this comes up someone says that the two main gear did in fact drop but the tail wheel didn't.

I don't know if that's true, or not.  But that's what seems to be a common thought.

[Guppy35]

Let's keep this simple.  Since we aren't playing the game with only one life and then we're done, folks are going to do things that a real WW2 combat pilot wouldn't do because they know they're not really dying and they'll get another brand new plane if they die.

So you get in a spot why not try everything you can think of to get the edge?  If you mess up, there isn't any realy penalty for it so who cares?  You can bet that the real pilots would have taken a lot more risks and tried a lot more 'tricks' if they knew there was no death penalty back then if they messed up

[Waffle]

there were 2 sets of controls -

One dropped the front gears / dive brake - without the rear landing gear.

The other dropped all of  the gears as normal.


here you go if ya need proof BTW - later on - watch the stalls...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1056703518162002454&q=f4u

[Kweassa]

Actually, there is. The F4U's gear were designed to be used as airbrakes as I understand it.

I also know that the Mosquito's airbrake frill was abandoned after tests showed that dropping the landing gear had the same effect. I have heard of them jamming when dropped at over 300mph on occasion too.

 For direct combat purposes?

 IMO, logically the so-called "airbrakes" itself being associated with the landing gear pretty much clearly demonstrates its purposes as a feature for carrier-based aircraft which one of its primary concerns would be lowering the difficulty of carrier landings. An airbrake would be extremely useful for aircraft trying to land at a limited space in the middle of the ocean.

 From what I understand keeping it "simple" and "direct" was the most important thing in WW2 aerial combat. HOTAS - hands on throttle and stick, and anything else that diverts the pilot's attention should be considered a deadweight, despite the fact that some expert pilots did make use of such features to pull off rare and occasional 'stunts'. Fiddling with flaps, mixture control, RPM levers, trim tabs, etc etc...

 Since some of the guys pointed out such use of landing gears (and gear doors) did happen in combat, I must ask about the frequency of such incidents. Can it be considered frequent enough to really say that such 'airbrake' features are a truly valid part of combat maneuvering?

[rv6]

Originally posted by Vudak
There's really nothing like going into a steep, fast dive against a plane that probably thinks you're the average Corsair that's going to try and run away, only to drop that gear, pull a hard breaking turn up, and roll around onto them.  If your persuer isn't expecting this they're in trouble.  And in the MA, you really wouldn't expect this if you didn't know who you were fighting at first...

Vudak, what you said is EXACTLY what happened!  I had Alt, I had e, I had cannons, whoopee for me..

Until I dove in on that hapless F4U..  He snapped upward like a snake and shot at me from every angle!  Every turn, was on a dime, his guns were 1 degree off me ALL THE TIME!  No matter how tight I turned, or how cleaverly I stall looped, or whatever..  (the gear down, in my face, just slayed me however.. (literally!).

I never fly an F4.. but the moral of all these very specific answers (and thank you all for them, especially the link from SirLoin) is, IMHO..

Never, EVER underestimate the F4U below you, and run like hell from the F4U above you.

Thanks again,

RV6

[bozon]

I still wonder why you get no nose down pull when gears are out at high speed.

You add a lot of drag low under the center of gravity, and I'd expect that the disturbance of airflow around the wing will not improve lift. This would make perfect sense if you are dive bombing, but pulling out the gears at 300 mph and pull 6 G.... ?

And when u get that last notch of flaps out in F4u,you can out-turn pretty much anything.

I have no data but that can't be right, especially in a plane notorious for difficult handeling when slow.