Author Topic: F6F-5... Much improved since last tested  (Read 2515 times)

Offline Widewing

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F6F-5... Much improved since last tested
« on: July 14, 2006, 01:12:31 PM »
Over the past several days, I have used the F6F as my ride for training folks. I haven't flown it much since the update to the drag model and haven't tested it in a while.

Late Wednesday evening, I had a chance to duel a pretty good stick while flying the Hellcat. This fellow was in an N1K2-J.

Right from the get-go, something seemed different. I beat him on the merge by enough to hose him as he came over the top. From there on, the F6F was able to match the Niki turn for turn, including staying right on it in a full flap lufberry. Going vertical, the Niki tried to get above the Hellcat... No dice, the F6F was glued to his tail feathers.

Afterwards, I was still marveling at how the F6F had remained utterly stable as opposed to being a wobble monster not many months ago. Unfortunately, I wasn't running film.

Last evening I remembered to record my flights. Arriving in the TA around 11 PM eastern, I upped an F6F. about 10 miles west of field A1, Murdr and Iceman24 were dueling in P-38Js. I flew over and asked if I could join them, guns cold (I would not shoot or otherwise interfere). Lo and behold, the pudgeball Hellcat not only was able to stay with the P-38s, it did so without having to push it. Now, Murdr and Iceman are very, very able P-38 drivers, and it will take a pretty good fighter plane to follow their gyrations. Yet, the Hellcat did so, even in the vertical.

Later, we mixed it up again, this time Iceman was flying a 109F-4, which in case you've been living in a cave lately, is now one of the very best dogfighters in the game. Iceman24 hadn't flown the 109F-4 since the 2.07 update. Murdr was in a P-38J and LEDPIG was also in a PJ. once again, the Hellcat proved to be amazing. I won't describe the fight. Instead, you can watch this FILM

Now, not being accustomed to the F6F being this good, I took a look at Mosq's test data for the Hellcat. Mosq reports a full flaps turn radius of 464.5 feet @ 20 degrees per second. I have tested enough aircraft to know that Mosq's data was accurate back in May when he did his testing. However, that was when the software revision was 2.07, patch 2. We are now in 2.08, patch 3. So, today I decided to retest the F6F-5. The test results were mindboggling... This formerly so-so dogfighter is now a genuine monster.

The data below shows turn radius and turn rate in degrees per second. I tested all five flap positions and no-flaps as well. The F6F was configured with 25% fuel, zero burn. Data is displayed as radius/rate in degrees/sec

No flaps: 675.0 feet / 19.68 degrees/sec
Flaps 1/5: 650.1 feet / 19.26 degrees/sec
Flaps 2/5: 560.8 feet / 21.59 degrees/sec
Flaps 3/5: 519.3 feet / 21.47 degrees/sec
Flaps 4/5: 445.3 feet / 23.23 degrees/sec*
Flaps 5/5: 430.5 feet / 22.07 degrees/sec**

For comparison, let's look at some other uber turners/dogfighters (all full flaps, 25% fuel)

N1K2-J: 413.8 / 22.5
109F-4: 437.6 / 20.8
F4U-1D: 427.3 / 19.4
Ki-84: 445.4 / 22.4
Spit16: 450.3 / 19.9
Spit9: 432.9 / 20.5
Seafire: 443.5 / 18.5

As you can see, the F6F-5 can now wade into a brawl and hand out beatings like never before. Only the very best turners can turn significantly smaller circles, but only the Zeros and Hurricane Mk.I can do so while matching or exceeding the Hellcat's remarkable turn rate (especially awesome with one notch less than full flaps).

Those of you who duel often in dissimilar fighters will recognize that turn rate is at least as important as turn radius, and often more important.

I have yet to test the Hellcat for acceleration and climb, but I did notice that the P-38J was unable to climb away by any significant margin. In addition, I did observe that the F6F was able to maintain 3,900 fpm while in auto-climb (at 25% fuel) up through 5k. I will do a full test over the weekend, but from what I have seen so far, the Hellcat can now live up to its real world reputation and its name. So, thanks HTC, those of us who like flying big blue fighters are grateful.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Bodhi

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F6F-5... Much improved since last tested
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2006, 01:38:32 PM »
Nice report, thanks Widewing.
I regret doing business with TD Computer Systems.

Offline Stang

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F6F-5... Much improved since last tested
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2006, 01:43:28 PM »
Nice report Widewing.  And yes I agree the F6F is much improved since the updated drag model.

Offline jaxxo

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F6F-5... Much improved since last tested
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2006, 03:09:36 PM »
shhhhh dangit

Offline SkyRock

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F6F-5... Much improved since last tested
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2006, 03:35:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Stang
Nice report Widewing.  And yes I agree the F6F is much improved since the updated drag model.
Lets duel em Stang I havent had a good one since Wadke, YUCCA, and Creton bout 6 months ago! Give me shout on 200!

Triton28 - "...his stats suggest he has a healthy combination of suck and sissy!"

Offline ALF

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F6F-5... Much improved since last tested
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2006, 05:12:03 PM »
Do not give away the secrets of the Big Bad Blue

Offline Mathman

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F6F-5... Much improved since last tested
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2006, 06:06:21 PM »
Gotta love the F6F.

Big Blue, Baby!

« Last Edit: July 14, 2006, 06:10:22 PM by Mathman »

Offline Krusty

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F6F-5... Much improved since last tested
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2006, 06:15:25 PM »
Damn, I gotta start flying the US uber planes again!

Offline LEADPIG

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F6F-5... Much improved since last tested
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2006, 07:34:01 PM »
The Hellcat is beautiful:D , I was there as Widewing was following Murdr, Iceman24, and Damionte in P-38 J's dueling and was suprised to see Widewings Hellcat hanging back there in the vertical.  The P-38 still could out vertical it, but it was definitely hanging in there as we did our soaring gyrations. I think this is much closer to the real Hellcats performance:D

P.S. We'll have to test them out next time i go in the TA Widewing, as i would be interested in seeing the Hellcats performance. :D

Offline xNOVAx

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F6F-5... Much improved since last tested
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2006, 07:41:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mathman
Gotta love the F6F.

Big Blue, Baby!



I'd hit it..

:aok


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Offline Iceman24

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F6F-5... Much improved since last tested
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2006, 10:50:25 PM »
the 38 might be able to outhang it but the F6 will definately follow it up and be able to get close for a good shot... I wasn't really stunned as to its turning ability, but it can loop and actually hang with the 38 in the vert and I never woulda thought that. I've flown the F4U's since the update and noticed they can now turn with the best but never noticed the hell kitty has now grown up to a full fledged hell cat, its a very very capable ride. Widewing, that was fun last night

Offline EagleEyes

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F6F-5... Much improved since last tested
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2006, 11:20:49 PM »
Hellcats my baby!!  Loved it since i first flew it!!


Thats why im flying it in "Operation Downfall"


:aok
Joedog31

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Offline Widewing

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F6F-5... Much improved since last tested
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2006, 11:32:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Iceman24
the 38 might be able to outhang it but the F6 will definately follow it up and be able to get close for a good shot... I wasn't really stunned as to its turning ability, but it can loop and actually hang with the 38 in the vert and I never woulda thought that. I've flown the F4U's since the update and noticed they can now turn with the best but never noticed the hell kitty has now grown up to a full fledged hell cat, its a very very capable ride. Widewing, that was fun last night


I was just as surprised at how the F6F can follow the P-38J thru loop after loop. The added stability now allows the pilot to perform really slick rudder reversals and not violently drop a wing as before.

Last evening I watched you discover the 109F-4's greatest weakness, its inability to roll right at low speeds. Torque effect is simply greater than the force that can be applied by the ailerons and rudder. This is especially evil when you have flaps out. It left you hanging there in space a couple of times. Eventually, you figure out that it's better to "go with the flow", so to speak. At low speeds, it rolls smartly to the left thanks to torque and adding a boot-full of rudder makes it roll extremely fast in that direction. The 109G-2 behaves in a similar manner, although one tends not to get that slow in the G-2. Under the circumstances existing last night, I just go left and avoid reversing to the right unless absolutely necessary. This becomes predictable, so it's a good idea to constantly change one's vertical component.

Another factor that requires some flight time in the 109F to master is learning when to retract the flaps to avoid burning off too much E. Eventually, you find that working the flaps up and down constantly will yield the best results. Inasmuch as this was your first experience in the 109F since the 2.07 update, you would not know the details of flying it without more time in it. While you were learning the 109F, I was getting the feel for the Hellcat's flaps. With the F6F, torque is a far smaller factor, largely due to the mass of the Hellcat and its excellent rudder. It rolls to the right quite nicely, even on the verge of a stall. I found that I rarely needed more than two or three notches. Four notches produces the best combination of turn radius and turn rate, but you still have the ability of going full down and really reefing it in tight. Because the F6F still has good control in all three axes of flight, even at extremely low speeds, it offers the pilot more options than the 109F does when flying at the ragged edge of a stall.

Anyway, those fights were great fun and a real eye opener.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Wadke

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F6F-5... Much improved since last tested
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2006, 12:18:21 AM »
Awe c'mon Widewing. You gotta let all my secrets about the thing out of the bag :mad:  


:D

Offline Magoo

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F6F-5... Much improved since last tested
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2006, 09:51:24 AM »
And I thought it was just me when I rocked in that Franz the other night.

Magoo
A bandit on your six is better than no bandit at all!