This week's most interesting comment from my Japanese Fiancee

[Soulyss]

Originally posted by AutoPilot
Trivia:

Where was the first A6m found that they gathered their info from?

One crashlanded during the Aleutian campagin... forget which island it was...

[Skyfoxx]

Soulyss is correct. It was at Unmak during the Dutch Harbor raid in June of 1942.

[aztec]

We do win some battles......but they always win the war.

[101ABN]

win the battle... occupy the doghouse.. ha ha ha..

[AutoPilot]

wtg soulyss

I seen this the other day thought it was kinda funny that someone named soulyss had this score.

[SkyRock]

Originally posted by Soulyss
I think the idea that the F6F was designed based on the tests conducted on a captured A6M are false... I don't have the book in front of me but I believe the F6F prototype was flown before the A6M was found in the Aleutians. I don't think any signifigant design changes were made to the prototype after that.

Not true, the US found that the f6f was underpowered to combat the a6m so modifications were made immediately following the find.  First of all the hellcat, pre-zero find, was going to be powered by an r2600, after they realised that wasn't enough power to give the hellcat an atvantage, the r2800 was chosen.  If they hadn't found the zero the r2600 would have been used and our beloved hellcat would have probably been nicknamed the FAT wildcat!  "The tactics were brutally simple, and almost foolproof: dive in, shoot, if necessary dive out of a fight--never get into a turning contest and never enter a fighter-to-fighter hassle in anything like a climb. It all worked to the extent that the Hellcat established an astounding nineteen-to-one kill vs. loss ratio in the Pacific, even better than the Corsair."

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Mustaine
Dont forget the zero was based at least partly on the howard hughes design.

Funny how both sides spew the same BS.

And it is BS in both cases.

[Squire]

Not really true, the XF6F-1 was flown on 26th of June 1942, and after initial tests it was decided that the R2600 was too small, and so they decided to go with the R2800. On June 30th 1942 the XF6F-3 was flown (yes, only days later), and Grumman chose it because it met the specs laid out before.

The requirements for the "new fighter" were set out months before, and there was very little time for any feedback from any captured Zeros.

Combat with the Zeros vs the USN had been limited to just Coral Sea and Midway by June 1942, by which time the Hellcat program was well under way.

Certainly Grumman and the USN would have been mindfull of European and British designs, and the Japanese, and were to some degree going to be influenced by what info they were getting on fighters from other nations, such influence is par for the course in wartime. Did they have the Zero in mind during the months of work on the Hellcat prototype? I am sure they did, but I think its an overstatement to directly link the Hellcat design to the Zero that closely.

"Hellcat" by David Anderton.

EDIT: Just dug out my Zero dates, the "captured Zero" was not ready for testing untill October 1942, with trials vs US types taking place in December 1942.

[LePaul]

I'm showing my age here....

If you ever watched 'Starblazers' as a kid, they made a Japanesse version of an episode about how the "Argo" (Yamato) was sunk, which never aired.

Much like Rolex says, when we attacked and sank that ship, we came out of no where, for no reason, yada yada

I'll hunt around, something that unique must be on DVD or even YouTube by now

[smash]

My wife is Chinese... Korean War discussions are somewhat useless.  Though I will say that when my in-laws were here we spent some time on it with the wife as a translator and it was fascinating.

Standing on the Oshkosh FL last year and pointing out the hydraulic speed brakes on the F86 and their purpose did not enhance my love life later that evening.

[Mathman]

Kind of sort of true.  The Navy had ordered two prototypes of the F6F to be built, both with different engines (the Wright 2600 in both, though the second was to be turbocharged).  The XF6F-1 first flew on June 30, 1942.  The USN suggested, before much meaningful testing had been done, that the plane needed a more powerful engine.  The decision was taken by the design team at Grumman to use the P&W R-2800.  This was placed in the second prototype (completed as the XF6F-3) which first flew on July 29, 1942.

The Aleutians Zero crashed on June 4, 1942.  It was found June 10th.  It was then recovered and shipped to San Diego (NAS North Island) where it was repaired and flown.  It is important to note, though, that flight evaluations of the captured aircraft began in late September 1942.  This was 2 months after the XF6F-3 had flown with the P&W R-2800.

What the Aleutian's Zero did was confirm everything that had been reported by the Navy concerning the Zeke's performance.  It proved that putting the new engine in the Hellcat was the right thing and that the F6F was truly a Zeke-killer.

 I type too slow and it seems as if Squire more or less said the same thing.

Felt like I should add a pic of a Hellcat and its favorite target in formation:

[Widewing]

One can easily make an argument that the Japanese borrowed heavily from American aircraft design.

In 1937, the Japanese government purchased Vought's V-143 prototype. This little fighter was extensively flown and examined by both Nakajima and Mitsubishi.

When captured Ki-43s were later examined by Vought engineers, they stated that they could see the influence of the V-143. Judge for yourself. Mitsubishi did borrow the oil cooler ductwork design and based their landing gear design on that of the Vought (the landing gear being designed by Northrop before they sold the design to Vought).

No one designs in a vacuum, everyone looks at what came before them and applies what technology they can use.  



My regards,

Widewing

[SkyRock]

I am quite certain that the decision to go with the r2800 was influenced by the examination of the captured zero.  Although no actual test flight of the a6m had been performed before the decision was made, initial examinations of the captured zero confirmed that the aircraft was capable of the data being recieved from the field.  Therefore the more powerful r2800 was the only alternative!:aok

[SkyRock]

Originally posted by Mathman
Kind of sort of true.  The Navy had ordered two prototypes of the F6F to be built, both with different engines (the Wright 2600 in both, though the second was to be turbocharged).  The XF6F-1 first flew on June 30, 1942.  The USN suggested, before much meaningful testing had been done, that the plane needed a more powerful engine.  The decision was taken by the design team at Grumman to use the P&W R-2800.  This was placed in the second prototype (completed as the XF6F-3) which first flew on July 29, 1942.

The Aleutians Zero crashed on June 4, 1942.  It was found June 10th.  It was then recovered and shipped to San Diego (NAS North Island) where it was repaired and flown.  It is important to note, though, that flight evaluations of the captured aircraft began in late September 1942.  This was 2 months after the XF6F-3 had flown with the P&W R-2800.

What the Aleutian's Zero did was confirm everything that had been reported by the Navy concerning the Zeke's performance.  It proved that putting the new engine in the Hellcat was the right thing and that the F6F was truly a Zeke-killer.

 I type too slow and it seems as if Squire more or less said the same thing.

Felt like I should add a pic of a Hellcat and its favorite target in formation:

Sweet pic, Mathman!

[Saxman]

Although wasn't McCampbell's killboard on the starboard side of the aircraft?