This has not been deliberate targeting, but has rather been due to tactical necessity

[Gunslinger]

"What he was telling us was Hezbollah fighters were all over his position and the IDF were targeting them, and that's a favorite trick by people who don't have representation in the U.N. They use the U.N. as shields knowing that they cannot be punished for it."

[Squire]

Its a war, and sadly, these kinds of things happen, I for one do not beleive the IDF deliberately fired on their position. Why would they? what would it possibly accomplish?

My condolences to the families involved, they were soldiers doing what they were ordered to do, irregardless of what you might think of the UN.

In the end, I blame Hezb for their deaths as they were the ones that triggered the IDF response in S. Lebanon.

[Fishu]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
even the UN has stated that Hezbollah was firing FROM UN positions and the IDF was RETURNING fire.

* from VICINITY of UN post, not on top of it.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Fishu
* from VICINITY of UN post, not on top of it.

"What he was telling us was Hezbollah fighters were all over his position and the IDF were targeting them, and that's a favorite trick by people who don't have representation in the U.N. They use the U.N. as shields knowing that they cannot be punished for it."

I'm not sure why I bother but oh well.

[lukster]

Too bad about the UN forces but I'm wondering why they would continue to sit in an area for so long with a war obviously being fought all around them. They certainly did little to prevent this war and once it was joined what did they hope to achieve by sitting in the middle of it?

[Elfie]

That Kanna incident happend in operation "grapes of wrath" where the IAF and artilley were attacking Hizballa posts after it launched rockets on Israel northern settlements. In that incident they launched rockets from just outside the fence of a UN base where a few hundred refugees were gathered. Israeli artilley was hasty in returning fire without checking what else is in that location and killed many civilians. The operation was ended soon after

Is it really that big of a stretch to think that Hizbolltards are doing the same thing now?

Hey Hezbahfishu,

No offense Fishu, that cracked me up.


What I find incredible is the same people that get their panties in a wad over Israel actions that cause civilian casualties are never anywhere to be found on this BBS when Israel is attacked and her civilians die. Stinks of anti-semitism to me.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Elfie


What I find incredible is the same people that get their panties in a wad over Israel actions that cause civilian casualties are never anywhere to be found on this BBS when Israel is attacked and her civilians die. Stinks of anti-semitism to me.

I see alot of that from some of the euros on this board.  Either that or they are part of the "blaim Israel first" crowd.  I don't see how one can defend hezbollah.....especially when the purposly fight amongst civilians and other non-combatants.

[xrtoronto]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
Actually I think thrawn gets it but torronto is probably blinded by BDS .

right back atchya dungslinger:

[Trikky]

No its just that any Euro who dares criticises Israel is branded a terrorist sympathiser.

Here we have a guy from Finland who lost a countryman to Israeli fire after they were repeatedly warned about the UN presence wondering how the hell it happened and you’re asking if he’s an anti-Semite.

[Fishu]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
I don't see how one can defend hezbollah.....especially when the purposly fight amongst civilians and other non-combatants.

Nobody has defended them. How can you make so twisted up claims in this thread? Just because someone doesn't believe in an accident?

Originally posted by Elfie
What I find incredible is the same people that get their panties in a wad over Israel actions that cause civilian casualties are never anywhere to be found on this BBS when Israel is attacked and her civilians die. Stinks of anti-semitism to me.

I'm already beyond caring what happens there. Israelis gave palestinians a chance. What do the palestinians do? They fight against each others within palestinian land and attacks Israel on the side of their internal affairs.

What does the Libanon do to Hezbollah?  nothing.. they're resourceless and Hezbollah is free to stroll about the border and send rockets to Israel. What does the Israelis do? well.. what everyone would do, they go to do what Libanese can't. It isn't new news that theres collateral damage in the bigger cities, when the Hezbollah fighters are using civilians for cover. Although Israelis have bombed wrong targets too.

Whats with the Israelis striking on an aid convoy on a road which Israelis have designated as a safe road for the aid? How can they mix up an aid convoy with Hezbollah when they're informed of it? What led to hours of attacking on UN post with different munitions and then attacks on people coming to help?

I'm willing to accept collateral damage as the weapons are not perfect and the cowardize tactics utilized by Hezbollah doesn't help either, but some collateral damage seems rather suspicious.


I wonder how big of an outcry it would cause if I'd claim the attacks on USS Liberty being an accident. Do any of you actually believe in that?

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Fishu
Nobody has defended them. How can you make so twisted up claims in this thread? Just because someone doesn't believe in an accident?




I'm already beyond caring what happens there. Israelis gave palestinians a chance. What do the palestinians do? They fight against each others within palestinian land and attacks Israel on the side of their internal affairs.

What does the Libanon do to Hezbollah?  nothing.. they're resourceless and Hezbollah is free to stroll about the border and send rockets to Israel. What does the Israelis do? well.. what everyone would do, they go to do what Libanese can't. It isn't new news that theres collateral damage in the bigger cities, when the Hezbollah fighters are using civilians for cover. Although Israelis have bombed wrong targets too.

Whats with the Israelis striking on an aid convoy on a road which Israelis have designated as a safe road for the aid? How can they mix up an aid convoy with Hezbollah when they're informed of it? What led to hours of attacking on UN post with different munitions and then attacks on people coming to help?

I'm willing to accept collateral damage as the weapons are not perfect and the cowardize tactics utilized by Hezbollah doesn't help either, but some collateral damage seems rather suspicious.


I wonder how big of an outcry it would cause if I'd claim the attacks on USS Liberty being an accident. Do any of you actually believe in that?

The difference is the evidence sudgests otherwise and you still discount it.  The IDF bombs and shells would have never been there if their target didn't fire at them from that location.  

As far as the liberty goes I have no concrete suspicians either way.  The US gov says it's an accident.

Either way what is lacking in all these accusation is motive killing UN peacekeepers and civlians poses a public relations and diplomatic nightmare.  There's no tactical benifit to targeting them intentionally.  There's no visable benifit to it.  

xrtoronto you just proved my point.

[xrtoronto]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
xrtoronto you just proved my point.

i proved your point by agreeing with 70% of the american population?

I'll accept that!:aok

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by xrtoronto
i proved your point by agreeing with 70% of the american population?

I'll accept that!:aok

Just because you say it does not make it so.

[Maverick]

Fishu,

I started to reply to you on everything you mentioned but it seems others have already done most of it. As to the bit that the position was hammered. Yep if you take fire from a spot you are going to hammer it as that is the way war is conducted. It isn't shoot once in their general area and if it's all quiet 30 seconds later figure the job is done. Overwhelming fire is used. The intent is to destroy the target not just get it dirty.

Secondly once a mission is launched it's rather hard to stop it quickly especially based on a phone call which likely isn't going direct to the HQ that launched it. There's more than one unit out there both launching air strikes and artillery. Secondly the Isreali's don't necessarily take requests at face value outside of their chain of command. The call would have to be verified THEN a command decision to act on it. That decision would then have to make it's way down the chain to the individual units actually conducting that particular mission out of the hundreds going on.

It's already been explained about hezbollah and other outfits of their "quality" fighting from within a normally non valid target zone. Once they launch rounds from that spot it becomes a valid target for counter battery and other attacks. Of course that ordinance doesn't fall straight down and accuracy isn't the same when you are being fired at instead of a normal trial run on a range where the rounds only go one way. Oh and another thing, once ordinance starts arriving things are a little hard to see to boot which tends to degrade the accuracy of "precision guided ordinance".

[Elfie]

I'm already beyond caring what happens there. Israelis gave palestinians a chance. What do the palestinians do? They fight against each others within palestinian land and attacks Israel on the side of their internal affairs.

What does the Libanon do to Hezbollah? nothing.. they're resourceless and Hezbollah is free to stroll about the border and send rockets to Israel. What does the Israelis do? well.. what everyone would do, they go to do what Libanese can't. It isn't new news that theres collateral damage in the bigger cities, when the Hezbollah fighters are using civilians for cover. Although Israelis have bombed wrong targets too.

Whats with the Israelis striking on an aid convoy on a road which Israelis have designated as a safe road for the aid? How can they mix up an aid convoy with Hezbollah when they're informed of it? What led to hours of attacking on UN post with different munitions and then attacks on people coming to help?

I'm willing to accept collateral damage as the weapons are not perfect and the cowardize tactics utilized by Hezbollah doesn't help either, but some collateral damage seems rather suspicious.

Thanks for that reply Fishu.

Fishu, no matter what war we could discuss, targets by both sides have been hit by mistake, because of poor/incorrect intelligence, mis-identification etc etc. To error is to reaffirm your humanity, we all make mistakes regardless of who we are. I try not to condemn anyone for mistakes.

As far as Israel hitting that aid convoy, we dont know yet why they did it. There may very well be a valid reason for it. Or, it could have been a mistake. To jump to conclusions and condemn Israel when we dont have all the facts is a bit premature isnt it?