Hello Nash,
Originally posted by Nash
4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
Yup, you're right about one thing, I am making under 500k. About a tenth of that estimate actually.
Sorry, I'll get serious...
It seems like we've been over exactly this ground a number of times, for instance,
here I devoted an entire thread to answering you on this point, I've quoted extensively from the bible and from the confessional standards I subscribed to when I was ordained showing that Christians have always believed that while personal revenge etc. is forbidden, the magistrate has been granted the authority to wage war on certain just and necessary occasions -
"For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil." (Romans 13:3-4)
In any event Nash, I fully realize the importance of Pastors not preaching a political message, but simply declaring as faithful ambassadors what the bible teaches in the pulpit. I know that on the Day of the Lord my ministry and preaching will be judged by a much higher authority than any here on earth
("My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment" - James 3:1), and consequently I try to scrupulously avoid preaching politics or simply spouting off my opinions in the pulpit. You can judge that for yourself,
all of my sermons (along with PDF text for DeSelys) are available online
here.
Next month we will even
be hosting a bible conference on what the bible teaches regarding war and capital punishment featuring a seminary professor and a nationally recognized pastor and author with an extensive background in this subject - so I hope you don't believe I am simply baptizing a conservative political message, far from it.
As for being a "political activist" - it's hard to see how that could be the case, I don't vote, don't take part in local or national politics, am not a registered member of any party, and the only place I even discuss politics is here and at the dinner table. As a matter of fact, I worked overtime in a committee this June to ensure that our denomination did
not adopt a a political overture that was sent to us but remained committed to dealing exclusively with matters ecclesiastical. In fact, you'll find I have made the "political preachers" in our denomination very angry on a number of occasions. While I love my adopted country, I don't carry an "America uber alles" brief and for instance recently lamented our increasing idolatry and made the following comments in a sermon
("The Writing on the Wall") :
"...if there is real hope for this nation, it cannot come from legislation or even vigorous military action. It will have to come through people turning heart by heart to God, to revival and reformation in the church, we should be praying for that."I sense though Nash, that the only clergy you are familiar with
are deeply political and committed to either the promotion of right wing ideology (Falwell, Robertson) or left-wing agendas (The Episcopal Church, etc.) rather than the men who are committed to proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ and letting the Bible speak. If you look back several hundred years before Bush, or modern Israel, to the preachers of the Reformation in whose train I humbly try to follow, you'll find that they didn't proclaim anything too terribly different from what I am saying. Let me give you just two examples who I trust won't be labeled "Pro-Bush Americans":
"Secondly, the killing of an enemy in a lawful war also is not included in the homicide which is forbidden. A war is lawful when enemies conspire to attack a nation that has not offended them, but which dwells quietly and peacefully—these enemies robbing them of their goods and making the people their bond servants. If the government of such a country then arms itself against such enemies, resists violence with violence, punishes them, and renders them incapable of returning, this is a righteous undertaking whereby the wicked are punished, and good persons are protected both personally as well as relative to their religion and belongings. The legality of such wars is not only abundantly evident in 1) the Old Testament, where God commanded them and prescribed the time and manner of attack, as well as promising to deliver up the enemy, but 2) also in the New Testament. John the Baptist baptized soldiers and rather than commanding to forsake warfare, he exhorted them to be satisfied with their wages and not to be a burden to anyone (Luke 3:14). The centurion is praised for his faith and was not dismissed from his service (Matthew 8:10, 13). Cornelius the centurion, a godly man, was visited by Peter, and while Peter was preaching he received the gift of the Holy Spirit. There is no word of rebuke, however, nor of being dismissed from his service (Acts 10:2, 33–34). Paul declares that the government is of divine origin and that it bears the sword to take vengeance upon the wicked and to protect the good (Rom. 13:1–3)."
[Pastor Wilhelmus A'Brakel (1635-1711), Minister of the gospel in the Dutch Reformed Church in Rotterdam]
"But kings and people must sometimes take up arms to execute such public vengeance. On this basis we may judge wars lawful which are so undertaken. For if power has been given them to preserve the tranquility of their dominion, to restrain the seditious stirrings of restless men, to help those forcibly oppressed, to punish evil deeds — can they use it more opportunely than to check the fury of one who disturbs both the repose of private individuals and the common tranquillity of all, who raises seditious tumults, and by whom violent oppressions and vile misdeeds are perpetrated? If they ought to be the guardians and defenders of the laws, they should also overthrow the efforts of all whose offenses corrupt the discipline of the laws. Indeed, if they rightly punish those robbers whose harmful acts have affected only a few, will they allow a whole country to be afflicted and devastated by robberies with impunity? For it makes no difference whether it be a king or the lowest of the common folk who invades a foreign country in which he has no right, and harries it as an enemy. All such must, equally, be considered as robbers and punished accordingly. Therefore, both natural equity and the nature of the office dictate that princes must be armed not only to restrain the misdeeds of private individuals by judicial punishment, but also to defend by war the dominions entrusted to their safekeeping, if at any time they are under enemy attack. And the Holy Spirit declares such wars to be lawful by many testimonies of Scripture."
[John Calvin (1509-1564), Reformer and Pastor in Geneva, The Institutes of Christian Religion]
Sorry for writing so much, I had no intention of doing so until pressed on the matter.
- SEAGOON
