Author Topic: Motorcycle helmet law?  (Read 3641 times)

Offline Enduro

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Motorcycle helmet law?
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2006, 08:11:22 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Jackal1


To each his own.  But, I still think I'm looking at an idiot when I see someone ride by w/out a helmet.

Heavy So Cal freeway traffic snuck up and bit me in the bellybutton one day while riding my sportbike--didn't have anything more than a 1/2 second to react.  I'm damn glad I had a full-face helmet on to protect my head when I went down.  Scratch marks front to back...now, THAT would've been painful had it been my face and head bouncing off the freeway instead of my helmet.
TBolt
Last edited by hitech on 09-08-2004 at 10:51 AM for flaming everone.

Offline Masherbrum

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Motorcycle helmet law?
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2006, 08:15:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Enduro
To each his own.  But, I still think I'm looking at an idiot when I see someone ride by w/out a helmet.

Heavy So Cal freeway traffic snuck up and bit me in the bellybutton one day while riding my sportbike--didn't have anything more than a 1/2 second to react.  I'm damn glad I had a full-face helmet on to protect my head when I went down.  Scratch marks front to back...now, THAT would've been painful had it been my face and head bouncing off the freeway instead of my helmet.


Yep.
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Offline MiloMorai

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Motorcycle helmet law?
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2006, 08:18:42 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
helmets and seat belts (and air bags) only work after the incident, the emphases should be on prevention of such incidents by better driving habits.

i started installing seat belts in my cars about 1959-60, not to help after a wreck but to give me better control of the car to prevent a wreck, (i drove verry fast when i was young and stupid).

Better driver ed is surely required as is stricter testing required to get a dirver's license.

Same here John. We had an 5 street intersection where we would try to do a donut in and still make the street we wanted to take. This was in the winter with ice and snow. Plastic seats and cold weather are not good. I found myself in the passenger seat after one donut attempt. This was in the mid-late '60s. Wore the belt ever since.

Do I wear a lid? You bet. Still have the old lid with the hole in it from road friction.

helmut story

In 2000 while on a road trip, the H-D needed an oil change so stopped in Cranbrook BC. When the mech took the bike around back to do the oil change, he wore a helmut. Asked why and was told a mech had died from head injuries when the bike went out from under him a ~10mph.

FiLtH, true only if you are 19 or older.

Offline lazs2

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Motorcycle helmet law?
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2006, 08:19:58 AM »
insurance companies give discounts for all sorts of lifestyle things like not smoking or being married or whatever.

The socialist trend and big business control issues these days are to sucker the sheeeeple into voting to have more and more government control over their lives..

All at the pretense of saving money or.... for their own good... the morons all suck up all the propoganda and gladly give up their freedom and gleefully repeat the slogans about darwing and saving lives and saving money and all the rest of the crap.

in the end... they are simply stupid people who have no concept of personal freedom and are easily propogandized.

When they are standing on the side of the road hopping on one foot, making chicken noises and flapping their arms.... they will deserve it.

Next they will want us all to be frisked and walk around with our shoes off at airports.

lazs

Offline -Concho-

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Motorcycle helmet law?
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2006, 08:37:29 AM »
Helmet or no helmet, seatbelt or no seatbelt; neither make a bit of difference if you don't ride or drive responsibly.

I've cut the seatbelts off of as many dead people as alive, the only good thing I see that it keeps you behind the wheel in case your able to recover.

Offline Jackal1

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Motorcycle helmet law?
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2006, 08:40:40 AM »
Why Helmet Laws SUCK! By Ted Pafford

 

            When you buy a motorcycle helmet you are taking a gamble that the helmet has met Department of Transportation standards known as FMVSS 218. But as we all know, or you should know, most helmets are never tested by the DOT. Helmets are “ self certified” by the manufacturers of the helmet. The Government relies on the manufacturers word that the helmet has met the DOT standards. Yes, that’s right, it is based on the “honor system.” I have known very few “honor systems” that work very well when the almighty dollar is involved. If there is a way for somebody to scam a buck off of people, somebody will do it.

           

            Let’s look at how the “honor system” typically works with helmet testing. This example is from 2001, but is usually the same each year. Out of hundreds of new models of helmets that come out each year, the DOT tested a mere 40 of them. Out of those 40 tested, 20% fail. The helmets that had failed in 2001 were manufactured by AFX, Fulmer, HJC, M2R, NEXL and THH. Sure the DOT might impose a fine on these manufacturers, but how does that help those of us that are depending on that helmet to possibly help save our life. The imposing of a fine on a manufacturer may come a little to late for some of us depending on these helmets to protect us in an accident. The manufacturer can enact a voluntary recall, but most people will never be aware they have one of these worthless “mushroom” head decorations they dare call a helmet. Which makes me wonder, if a helmet isn’t labeled properly in the first place, how would you know it has been recalled anyway? Hmmm recalled helmets… How is a person notified if their helmet is recalled?   Do they send you a notice in the mail? NO. Do they inform you on the television or the newspaper? NO.  Heck, even the local motorcycle retail store where you bought it probably doesn’t post them. And on a rare occasion that they do, it is displayed only for a limited time. It makes you wonder if they must be afraid it will cost them too much money if people find out.  It sounds like the recall program leaves the impression that they care about our heads, but it is about as effective as the DOT certification “honor system.”

 

            I’m assuming the manufacturers haven’t lost a lot of money from recalls. All of the manufacturers that had their helmets fail in 2001are currently (2004) in business and making helmets.  It looks to me that making a substandard helmet is worth the minimal risk that the DOT might ever get around to testing it.  It’s a numbers game, you can make a bunch of money with a very low chance that your helmet will be tested.  What makes me the angriest is I thought my $170 dollar KBC helmet, which I blindly assumed could save my life because of the DOT sticker on the back, was manufactured in 1999 then recalled in 2004. WHAT… you mean I have been wearing this useless head decoration for the past 5 years and it doesn’t pass DOT certification and when the DOT finally tests it in 2004 they say it will crack like an eggshell with impact. WOW, who ran off with my $170 dollars for a substandard helmet? So who REALLY cares about my safety when it comes to helmets? The Government says they do. It was passed into law that we have to wear them, but yet they test so very few?  The manufactures say they care, but at the same time they have helmets that fail testing every year.

 

            If the Government is worried about motorcyclists, why aren’t they worried about other people’s safety? How about the bicyclists? Statistics show that bicyclist brain injuries can be reduced up to 88% with the use of helmets. Most bicycle fatalities are kids under the age of 15. Why is there not a state bicycle helmet law? The state say’s they “strongly encourage” people to wear bicycle helmets at all times. And what about those skate boarders, water skiers, snow skiers etc. That’s a lot of head injuries. Shouldn’t there be a law for them to wear helmets?  Are we only concerned with the safety and well-being of motorcyclists, and not the general public’s safety? How about all the people that vote for the helmet law and are against freedom of choice?  I’m sure that most people who vote in a general election don’t even ride a motorcycle yet they’re making this decision for me? All of those voters got to the polling site somehow, and that automobile they drove there…there are more head injuries in automobile accidents every year than motorcycle accidents.  Why don’t we introduce a helmet law for automobiles, because we motorcyclists are concerned about head injuries in auto accidents? You don’t see race car drivers with out helmets.

 

            Speaking of auto safety, how about the story of the old body style F-150 trucks (1999-2004 Heritage). It’s the best selling truck, but yet it’s the worst in crash testing. How do we know this you ask? Because the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety crash tested it.  And you may ask yourself, why was the IIHS developed for automobiles crash testing when the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the auto manufacturers crash test their own vehicles? The auto manufactures said their vehicles were “safe.” Why then does another crash test organization test them? I think it goes back to the old “honor system.”  Hmmm. Anyway back to the F-150. The old style F-150 failed the crash test miserably, however the new body style (2004-present) does extremely well. Oddly enough, even though the old style F-150 is one of the most unsafe vehicles, Ford will continue to produce them until June 2005 because they are so popular. Thanks again to government and manufacturers for being concerned about the public’s safety.

 

            I am neither for nor against helmets. I am for freedom of choice. The helmet law has a lot of flaws in the system and it gives a lot of people a false sense of security. If we are truly concerned about motorcyclist’s safety then why do we allow the sale of helmets that haven’t been properly tested by the DOT?  The Government chooses not to fund the DOT so it can function properly and at the same time they force us to wear a helmet that they themselves cannot guarantee will be safe.  I’m hoping that people who are for or against the helmet law will find out all the facts of how flawed this system is before they vote again. Let the people who ride decide! If you won’t let us decide, then don’t put a helmet on a store shelf that’s not safe, because many of the ones that are currently out there will either get us an improper helmet citation or possibly killed in an accident by not protecting our head.

 

 

 

My list of some helmet manufactures. I randomly picked 3 manufactures to see how many models of helmets they make. The 3 add up to 42 helmets. This should give you an idea of how few helmets are tested every year by the DOT.

 

Cyber
   

 
   

CMS

Daytona
   

 
   

Craft

HJC
   

 
   

Davida

Bikers Choice
   

 
   

Devel

KBC
   

 
   

Ergon

M2R
   

 
   

FM

Nolan
   

 
   

Fulmer

Oneal
   

 
   

Grex

Scott
   

 
   

Icon

Shoei                 - 8
   

 
   

MHR

Tour Master
   

 
   

Momo

THH
   

 
   

MSR

Caliber
   

 
   

Nitro

Xpeed
   

 
   

NXT

Fox racing
   

 
   

NZI

Fly racing
   

 
   

OGK

Suomy
   

 
   

Rodia

Thor
   

 
   

Roof

Arai                  - 14
   

 
   

RST

AFX
   

 
   

Scorpion

Bieffe
   

 
   

Shark

AGV/Lazek
   

 
   

Simpson

Bell                  - 20
   

 
   

Spada

JKC
   

 
   

Uvex

Icom
   

 
   

DMA

Answer
   

 
   

Zamp

Gmax
   

 
   

Zues

Z1R
   

 
   

Cabers

Xtreme
   

 
   

Arashi

Shark
   

 
   

Airoh

Uvex
   

 
   

Blitz AFX

X-lite
   

 
   

Replica

Schuberth
   

 
   

Fly Racing

Lem
   

 
   

AXO mm zero

Vemar
   

 
   

Troy

Kiwi
   

 
   

Vega

MDS
   

 
   

Wolf Metallic

Zamp
   

 
   

VX-7

Tour lite
   

 
   

Starlight
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline lazs2

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Motorcycle helmet law?
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2006, 08:46:25 AM »
jakal... all you will get out of this is that the morons will ask that yet another government agency open up to test each and every helmet in their governmentaly efficient way...

"please of please save me from myself and take more of my money to do it." they will shout... or "I wear em sooo... everyone should... I am tired of people laughing at my dorkiness and want to run other peoples lives."

Or... it will just be someones mom voting to protect the child that left home because.... because she can.   Never let go of those apron strings..

lazs

Offline Jackal1

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Motorcycle helmet law?
« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2006, 08:55:57 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
jakal... all you will get out of this is that the morons will ask that yet another government agency open up to test each and every helmet in their governmentaly efficient way...

"please of please save me from myself and take more of my money to do it." they will shout... or "I wear em sooo... everyone should... I am tired of people laughing at my dorkiness and want to run other peoples lives."

Or... it will just be someones mom voting to protect the child that left home because.... because she can.   Never let go of those apron strings..

lazs


Exactly. The point is people are being had. If that DOT sticker is not on your helmet you can be fined. ............even though it`s meaningless.


Quote
The people that don't want to wear helmets don't care that it is the rest of us that pays for the lifetime care they will need. Kind of selfish.


Tell ya what Dago..........you start wearing full body armour and a firesuit when you drive your cage and I`ll wear a helmet.
Highway motorcycle accidents are not usualy caused by the rider, but instead caused by cage drivers with their head up their backsides. Kind of selfish in my book.
As for full faceshield helmets, I`d just as soon ride with a blindfold and ear plugs.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline Chairboy

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Motorcycle helmet law?
« Reply #38 on: August 07, 2006, 09:07:52 AM »
To the people who argue that helmet laws are required because they make you safer, then why stop there?  Why not simply outlaw motorcycles and bicycles completely? That'd be even safer yet!  Or outlaw sport cars or any car other than public transportation, for that matter, the road fatalities would drop!
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Offline Masherbrum

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Motorcycle helmet law?
« Reply #39 on: August 07, 2006, 09:20:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
To the people who argue that helmet laws are required because they make you safer, then why stop there?  Why not simply outlaw motorcycles and bicycles completely? That'd be even safer yet!  Or outlaw sport cars or any car other than public transportation, for that matter, the road fatalities would drop!


Actually I'd like to see some of these Lance Armstrong wannabes that hold up traffic fined or have their POS bike impounded.  Why?  Because their is normally a BIKE PATH or sidewalk 6 feet to the right or left of em (depending on what side of the road).  

Problem with "No helmet wearers" is, when they die in an accident, we pay for it with an insurance hike.   My feeling on it, if you wanna be a dolt, sign a waiver.  You get into an accident and were NOT wearing a helmet, leave the insurance company out of it.
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Offline Chairboy

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Motorcycle helmet law?
« Reply #40 on: August 07, 2006, 09:27:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
Problem with "No helmet wearers" is, when they die in an accident, we pay for it with an insurance hike.   My feeling on it, if you wanna be a dolt, sign a waiver.  You get into an accident and were NOT wearing a helmet, leave the insurance company out of it.
Masherbrun, why not extend that to apply to ALL dumb was to get hurt?

If you get lung cancer because you smoke, no coverage!  If you get injured because you pulled into traffic without looking, no coverage!  If you trip andfall because you weren't paying attention, no coverage!

Hells bells, if you get pneumonia, why should you get coverage?  You could have just dressed warmer!

By your logic, the only thing medical insurance should cover is if you, while at home safe behind walls, were to be struck by a meteor.

Of course, if you had invested in a thicker ceiling....  hell, NO COVERAGE!
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Offline lazs2

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Motorcycle helmet law?
« Reply #41 on: August 07, 2006, 09:27:57 AM »
mash... again... I ask you...

What did you do with the huge rebate you got when the insurance companies got their way and passed helmet and seatbelt laws?

Would you be happy if rates were higher (to cover costs) for non seatbelt users and non helmet users and/or wearers got a discount... like smoking for life insurance or married discounts or student ones or any of a number or other lifestyle discounts?

lazs

Offline Masherbrum

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Motorcycle helmet law?
« Reply #42 on: August 07, 2006, 09:36:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
mash... again... I ask you...

What did you do with the huge rebate you got when the insurance companies got their way and passed helmet and seatbelt laws?

Would you be happy if rates were higher (to cover costs) for non seatbelt users and non helmet users and/or wearers got a discount... like smoking for life insurance or married discounts or student ones or any of a number or other lifestyle discounts?

lazs


I won't make a difference.  People will still not wear helmets and other's will end up footing the bill.   It doesn't matter what we think, all I can do is say that from what I have witnessed, NOT wearing either is about as stupid as installing a light above a pool, while balancing on ladder.   "It may not happen this time".
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Offline Gh0stFT

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Motorcycle helmet law?
« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2006, 09:52:35 AM »
after the crash:

with helmet


without a helmet


your choise ! ;)
The statement below is true.
The statement above is false.

Offline Sandman

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Motorcycle helmet law?
« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2006, 10:01:05 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Actually just the opposite.  It wasn't freedom or concerns about liberty that pushed through no-helmet laws, but the insurance lobby.  And since the insurance lobby pushed it through, that means that it costs less medically for them instead of the person wearing a helmet.  That means in the whole, it costs less medically for you to not wear a helmet.


On the other hand... the insurance companies didn't lower their rates after the laws were passed. Lower medical costs means higher profits.

It's all about the money.
sand