Author Topic: La-7s and Spitfire Mk.16s  (Read 2627 times)

Offline Chalenge

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La-7s and Spitfire Mk.16s
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2006, 01:39:27 PM »
From what Ive been reading Ive got the impression that the La7 is faster in this game than it was in real life but I have not found solid data yet. I have learned that we are very lucky the Yak3 isnt in the game because the same ho-masters would fly it poorly too and its even faster. My favorite planes to shoot in the head are bombers and la7s and in the case of la7s I will shoot them even with ten other higher cons in the area. They deserve no better especially when they are at 20k practicing their ho-art.
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Offline Ray77

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La-7s and Spitfire Mk.16s
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2006, 01:40:18 PM »
How did HOs work in real life?

Not done..it's suicide?
Only when the numbers were against you.
It didn't happen at all.
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Offline Mako15

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La-7s and Spitfire Mk.16s
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2006, 01:51:06 PM »
hehe I just wish we had some Mig-3s then I'd give those La-7s a run for their money

Offline Masherbrum

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La-7s and Spitfire Mk.16s
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2006, 01:57:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ray77
How did HOs work in real life?

Not done..it's suicide?
Only when the numbers were against you.
It didn't happen at all.


JG26 "Abbeville Kids" and their Yellow-Nosed 190's struck fear into the Allied Bombers by HO'ing them.   It was their preferred tactic, because that is one of the most vulnerable areas.
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Offline Kweassa

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La-7s and Spitfire Mk.16s
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2006, 02:12:23 PM »
Quote
How did HOs work in real life?

Not done..it's suicide?
Only when the numbers were against you.
It didn't happen at all.


 From what I understand, Ray, HOs were a valid tactic but often considered very risky.

 The one, singlemost difference between real-life HOs and and game HOs is that in real life when you die you die. Therefore, HOing was a risky maneuver with a very small window of opportunity to try and land a shot, and then the pilot would have to immediately maneuver out of the way to avoid collision.

 Besides, the very meaning of combat maneuvering lies in trying to maneuver in a certain manner so you can defeat the enemy without being harmed yourself. No matter how advantageous firepower a plane holds, HOs always maintained a certain risk that the enemy will land a shot to your plane - in the worst case, a shot landing on the cockpit area where protection was minimal. Therefore, it took balls, and absolute faith in one's own firepower (or gunnery skill) and the toughness of the plane, to carry out a HO. Even then a HO would be the least preferable choice of engaging an enemy.
 
 The problem with game HOs is that the sense of peril is very much dulled, since we aren't really scared of dying in the game. Therefore what, usually happens is people rely on reckless HOs. Not only do they do it a lot, but also the HO itself is more of a "chicken" contest you'd see in movies, than just 'brushing by, trying to land a brief shot'. Two planes would just head smack into each other on a crash course with guns blazing.. and nine times out of ten results in collisions rather than a shot landing.

 Thus, instead of trying to work out a certain logical plan in defeating the enemy, many people just rely on maneuverable planes, trying to bear their guns on the enemy plane in whatever way they can. Typically the fight degenerates into a HO contest - with every turn and circle made resulting in a HO after a HO, until one side loses either by being shot, or by result of collision.

 
 In the case of the Fw190s the HO tactics were a carefully calculated risk. The earlier B-17s had weak protection at the nose and the number of defensive guns an interceptor would face became minimal when attacking from the front. Therefore, the interceptors would find the stream of B-17s, fly ahead, turn around and attack the bombers from the front. This was an effective tactic since bombers were farely large targets flying at a steady course and speed. Careful planning and execution minimized the risk of mid-air collisions while maximizing the chances of survival for the 190s. It also maximized the effect of the attack, since a successful attack would utterly rip apart the cockpits of the bombers, rendering them helpless.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2006, 02:16:26 PM by Kweassa »

Offline Rino

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La-7s and Spitfire Mk.16s
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2006, 02:22:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Delirium
Everyone HOs, last night for example, I was engaged with no less than 5 and every single one of them tried for it.  Even the C202 in the mix fired!


     I'd have HOed ya too you rotten so and so :)
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Offline 1K3

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La-7s and Spitfire Mk.16s
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2006, 02:48:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chalenge
From what Ive been reading Ive got the impression that the La7 is faster in this game than it was in real life but I have not found solid data yet. I have learned that we are very lucky the Yak3 isnt in the game because the same ho-masters would fly it poorly too and its even faster. My favorite planes to shoot in the head are bombers and la7s and in the case of la7s I will shoot them even with ten other higher cons in the area. They deserve no better especially when they are at 20k practicing their ho-art.


Yak 3 is no faster than La-7.  Yak-3 has the same engine as the standard Yak-9 or Yak-9T (VK-105) but it is as light as the A6M zero

Offline FALCONWING

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La-7s and Spitfire Mk.16s
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2006, 03:03:50 PM »
i fly the la7 once in a while......

i have found that most enemy planes actually try to ho me...i have no idea why...the la7 is a better hoer than anything but a 110/il2.

when i see guys type about being ho'd by a la7 i hafta ask myself why did they not decide before less then 1k out to maneuver for anything else???
is plain goofy..then i realize that most guys who hate the la7 and whine about ho's are skilless pilots and darwin is smiling as they die...

and yes the la7 is a wonderful knife fiter...i would rather turnfite almost anything then take a chance at winning a ho.....

but i hardly ever fly one so this is just my theoretical ideas....

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Offline LEADPIG

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La-7s and Spitfire Mk.16s
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2006, 03:23:13 PM »
I got nothing against any of those planes, in fact the Spitfire is one of my favorite real life planes. The truth is anybody can fly any plane any way they want, as far as BnZ and Ho'in goes it's just the nature of the beast. When i see somebody heading straight at me i offset so they got no shot. BnZ, i use the BnZ defence technique, it works, but if somebody has an advantage theres not much you can do, these are just facts of life, i just live with it, For instance, I think half the times i hear people yelling about ramming it's actually an accident and their just mad they got hit.

Offline LEADPIG

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La-7s and Spitfire Mk.16s
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2006, 03:31:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ray77
How did HOs work in real life?

Not done..it's suicide?
Only when the numbers were against you.
It didn't happen at all.


Qh yea and Ray, every tactic in this game that is considered dirty and risky was seriously used in real life, so i find it a little funny that people complain about it here. I can't tell you the war stories i've read where i've heard them do much, much worse, so a little Ho'ing and ramming is nothing, they actually did this stuff which actually tells me how horrible and desperate a real war must be. It must be hell!!! :confused: :O

Offline SkyRock

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La-7s and Spitfire Mk.16s
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2006, 03:45:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SAS_KID
LA7 is a very great fighter. It can do anything and with its engine go vert when slow and catch something. Or it can scissor well. It can do everything well. Then run home with those kills you wanted to land.
la7's are bait on the plate!:aok

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Offline Stang

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La-7s and Spitfire Mk.16s
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2006, 05:14:24 PM »
where's Shane?

:(

Offline Masherbrum

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La-7s and Spitfire Mk.16s
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2006, 06:22:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Stang
where's Shane?

:(


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Offline LePaul

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La-7s and Spitfire Mk.16s
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2006, 06:41:51 PM »
Lately, Ive taken the "cant beat em, join em" approach.  While I love my P-38s, I cant do the stuff Corky does (He *must* be high on Nyquil to do those things!).  So I've been upping the Spit16 and shooting the fellas down.  Heck they cant do anything wrong, awesome guns, fast, turn...why learn a plane when you can just fly this thing?  :cool:

Offline LYNX

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La-7s and Spitfire Mk.16s
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2006, 07:12:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Grits
The hardest part of turnfighting the La7, and the thing that 99% do wrong in every plane but is particularly bad in the LA7, is they never chop the throttle. Lots of folks think the La7 (and several other planes) dont turn well because they never back out of WEP. They throw it too the stop and run wide open, but the key to the La7 (and again several others but the La7 in particular) is throttle control because of its incredible acceleration. Learn to use the throttle, which in the La7 can mean long periods at 0% throttle, and it can turn with almost anything.


VERY true and some flaps will turn inside a niki.  I'm just so glad the thing has poor gas to miles.   Them nasty in the right hands.

Spits.... try and stay with a spit when it does 180 over it's right shoulder...ooopps enough said :D