Author Topic: Alternative fuel  (Read 1808 times)

Offline dmf

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2920
Alternative fuel
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2006, 05:00:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by cav58d
Even if an alternate fuel source was made available tomorrow morning, I just dont see it being practical...

What do you expect me to do with a 12 month old $25,000 car that run's on oil/gas???

What do you expect the people who live off used cars every 2 or 3 years because they cant afford something new?

I agree, an alternate source of evergy needs to be found, but I think we need to look at this as realist, and understand it will take at the mininum a decade before >50% of the United States can practically use it


Thank you, I'm one of the ones that gets a used car every 2 or 3 years, but I heard on teh cbs sunday morning news a couple of weeks ago about a truck stop in Texas that Willie Nelsion goes to that produces Diesel fuel out of deep fat fryer grease. I want to learn more about this, I'll start buying used cars every 2 or 3 years with diesel engines in them.
With te fuel savings I could afford to move out of this apt into a trailer, ( trust me it'd be a improvement )

Offline AquaShrimp

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1706
Alternative fuel
« Reply #31 on: August 13, 2006, 06:07:35 PM »
Quote
The biomass fad won't work as a fuel replacement. Yes it might reduce our petro fuel use slightly but there isn't enough arable land in the US to support the growth of enough biomass to take the place of the billions of barrels of oil we now use for fuel, both gas and diesel.


This isn't quite true.  One estimate is that it will take 1000 square miles to produce a years worth of energy for the United States from genetically engineered algae.

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
Alternative fuel
« Reply #32 on: August 13, 2006, 06:20:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by dmf
I want to learn more about this, I'll start buying used cars every 2 or 3 years with diesel engines in them.
 


DMF, had a friend install such a system in a diesel Benz. He loves it.

His was done in Tennessee but the system is like the one described here:

http://www.greasecar.com/

He had it all done, turnkey operation and it cost him less than $2K as I recall.

He gets his "fuel" free from a local restaurant.

You have to decide if it's worth $2k up front plus the collecting and filtering of the fuel all the time.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline rpm

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15661
Alternative fuel
« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2006, 01:23:13 AM »
Biodiesel and ethanol are the short term or bridging solution. They are viable only to the point of getting us to the next step. That step will be either hydrogen or nuke. Cold fission is the long term answer, unfortunately it does not exist yet.
My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.
Stay thirsty my friends.

Offline Mini D

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6897
      • Fat Drunk Bastards
Re: Re: Alternative fuel
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2006, 07:34:05 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by FUNKED1
Imagine if we had spent 300 billion @#$%ing dollars on that instead of the cluster@#$% in Iraq...
I imagine we'd have a record number of physics proffessors getting arrested for misappropriation of funds. It would just be more difficult to establish ties back to Chaney.

Offline JB88

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10980
Alternative fuel
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2006, 07:36:50 AM »
:huh

um.  less dead people.
this thread is doomed.
www.augustbach.com  

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

word.

Offline Masherbrum

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 22416
Alternative fuel
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2006, 07:48:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by cpxxx
Actually there was an interesting article in Aviation week recently. Synthetic fuel made from coal. The Germans used in WW2 so it' hardly new. The more expensive oil becomes the more economically viable it is to produce. Interestingly it's supposed to be cleaner than oil based fuels.
It can be mixed with normal fuel too.

America has a lot of coal mines!


But coal is not a renewable resource, it is just as scant as oil.
FSO Squad 412th FNVG
http://worldfamousfridaynighters.com/
Co-Founder of DFC

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
Alternative fuel
« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2006, 08:10:47 AM »
eagl... one correction... solar panels do take a lot of energy to produce but..  the ones we are making are very poor... they are like 5% efficient.

There are panels out there that are about 80% efficient and on their way to becoming viable.

If we want the government to do something then they could simply offer a billion dollar reward for the first solar panel that was say.... 80% efficient and cost $500 per 4' x 8' panel... at 80% efficient the typical house would only need 2 or 3 of em to be relatively self sufficient..

instead.. the government will probly continue to offer rebates on any crap panels that sleaze bag salesman and contractors can throw on a roof thereby effectively halting any real development.

lazs

Offline Nilsen

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18108
Alternative fuel
« Reply #38 on: August 14, 2006, 08:14:02 AM »
The worlds largest producer of sola cell wafers is located in my my town. Its haveing a fenomenal growth with the prices we are seeing on power now. Has been a great investement for me. :)

Offline eagl

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6769
Alternative fuel
« Reply #39 on: August 14, 2006, 08:27:29 AM »
Lazs,

I'll believe it when I see it.  There are a whole lot of snake oil salesmen out there, and where it comes to measurable results and repeatable/usable working hardware, the 80% solar cell ranks somewhere between the healing properties of magnet matress pads and cold fusion.  Nasa and various satellite manufacturers have put a lot of time/effort into solar cell research and the best they can get out in space (above that pesky atmosphere) using tricky pass-through double-sided reflector techniques is about 20% (IIRC).  And even those seem to go tits-up at an alarming rate, much to the chagrin of companies who just spent 800 million bucks on their new fancy comm satellite that is now running on 70% expected power because the solar cell performance degraded far faster than expected. :furious

Don't get me wrong, solar cells have many legit uses even today, but I don't think we'll see a really big breakthrough in efficiency anytime soon even with the space industry tossing millions of dollars at the problem every year.  It's easy (and incredibly lazy/cynical/ignorant) to say our energy problems would be solved if the govt only spent $XXX on THIS instead of THAT, but the fact is that whoever comes up with the next big breakthrough is going to be rich so even corporations intrenched in the petroleum cycle are working on this, and there are several expensive industries (space for one) that are actively advancing the state of the art (and throwing obscene amounts of money at it), and we're still only getting incremental improvements.

If we could only turn all the bad spelling and hideous grammar (and my run-on sentences) on this BBS into energy...  That would fix everything.  But those dictionary.com bastages are keeping us down by helping me spell those hard words, damn them.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2006, 08:35:57 AM by eagl »
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
Alternative fuel
« Reply #40 on: August 14, 2006, 09:00:27 AM »
the breakthroughs are allready happening eagl... even conventional solar panels have decreased in cost per KW by a factor of 20 in the last decade.

the wave of the future for solar is using cone shaped mirrors to concentrate the solar rays and in the platforms that allow tracking of the sun.

80% is very much on the horizon.

lazs

Offline eagl

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6769
Alternative fuel
« Reply #41 on: August 14, 2006, 09:02:00 AM »
Dude, pass the doobie 'cause I want some of what you're smokin :)

Seriously, I guess I'm just a bit cynical because I've seen so many promising advances turn out to be just so much BS and hype.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
Alternative fuel
« Reply #42 on: August 14, 2006, 09:09:09 AM »
I agree...  I know an engineer who is friends with another engineer (yeah I know but the guy is pretty trustworthy) who is doing some pretty neat stuff.

I will try to get the website.

Even today with the crappy panels we have (and they are 20 times better than a decase ago)  I have seen installations that make houses that are 2500 square feet virtualy energy self sufficient.

This is important because supplying electricity to the home grid is the worst problem we have.

The two homes I know of that have had solar for over 2 years both say that... they produce more electrical than they can use in the summer and that in the winter their bills run around $50... if they could sell back execess summer power they would probly break even at the least.

The systems are running about $20K these days... they will be less in 5 years and less in 5 more.

How do you figure that solar panels will not get more efficient?  Do you believe that the current efficiency rate is the max possible?

lazs

Offline Shuckins

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3412
Alternative fuel
« Reply #43 on: August 14, 2006, 09:12:57 AM »
Ever seen this article?  Wonder what ever became of the technology developed for turning almost anything into synthetic oil?

[http://discover.com/issues/apr-06/features/anything-oil/[/URL]

Regards, Shuckins

Offline JB88

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10980
Alternative fuel
« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2006, 09:14:57 AM »
there are some interesting systems which use an array of mirrors coupled with a central condenser that is made efficient via use of a heliostat.  

raw energy conversion.

essentially heat energy.

it operates much like the solar death ray that was going around the web a year or so ago.
this thread is doomed.
www.augustbach.com  

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

word.