good gun laws and bad ones....

[lazs2]

another thread was getting sidetracked by this...

Sooooo... what do you feel we should have for gun laws.

I will start.

Firearms should be held to strict manufacturing standards of safety (like they are now).

Children should only be able to shoot in the company of an adult.    The insane should not be allowed to own firearms and no one serving time in prison should be able to have one while in prison.

no explosives in a populated area that could endanger the surrounding buildings.

lazs

[Shamus]

Originally posted by lazs2


 no one serving time in prison should be able to have one while in prison.



lazs

I bet the CO's really agree with this part

shamus

[lazs2]

It seems reasonable to me... they have lost their rights while in prison and should be treated as people without rights.

lazs

[Sandman]

I have a question... when did the 2nd Amendment become limited to small arms?

[Eagler]

Originally posted by lazs2
It seems reasonable to me... they have lost their rights while in prison and should be treated as people without rights.

lazs

while in prison? what about after they are released?
I think once they get to have a vacation in the big house, the right to bear arms should be gone for good. Isn't it that way now? Sorry not up on al the latest gun laws as I do not understand some fascination of guns and fast or expensive cars - always thought they were lacking in something/somewhere and were trying to compensate for their short comings

[lasersailor184]

I have a question... when did the 2nd Amendment become limited to small arms?

When the ATF (think it was the atf) sued a Dead guy and successfully argued to a judge what the second ammendment included.


It's kind of hard to defend your rights if you're A.) Not at the lawsuit, B.) Don't have a Lawyer, and C.) Dead.


The laws you see about machine guns, cannons, other weapons and anything else stem solely from this one lawsuit.  No judge has been willing to accept a lawsuit to challenge it, especially a supreme court judge.  They are afraid of the consequences of us winning the suit.

[ramzey]

Originally posted by lazs2
The insane should not be allowed to own firearms a........
 

why you like to denny acces to firearms for more then half population?

also your propositions reminde me current eurocommies law

[Trell]

Originally posted by Eagler
while in prison? what about after they are released?
I think once they get to have a vacation in the big house, the right to bear arms should be gone for good. Isn't it that way now? Sorry not up on al the latest gun laws as I do not understand some fascination of guns and fast or expensive cars - always thought they were lacking in something/somewhere and were trying to compensate for their short comings

I would think they have served there time and payed for there crime,   But then i think they should be able to vote once out of prison as well,

should be treated like everyone else once they get out.

[lazs2]

the founders defined "arms" as hand held firearms that could be brought with you to form a militia..   most fully automatic weapons that were handheld would qualify.

Prison?  while in prison they shouldn't have rights.   when they get out you hand em the gun that they had on em when they went in if any.

If you can't trust em with a firearm then why would you let em out?

lazs

[Horn]

Originally posted by lazs2

If you can't trust em with a firearm then why would you let em out?

lazs

While I agree with the spirit here (if they've served their time they should be de facto brought back into society) the reality is that most are on parole when they get out and parole serves as a method to both reintegrate and to some degree "test" the con's ability to go back into society as a law abiding citizen. Same for half-way houses.

I despair somewhat looking at recidivism rates though--forty percent is the running average (there are many factors to recidivism--type of crime, length of incarceration, priors, etc)--but about four out of ten will reviolate, therefore returning everyone's guns at the time of release is a bad idea.

Now, if there were perhaps a time period associated with the return of rights (voting, gun ownership)--say, two years after clearing parole and burning their DOC number maybe that would work.

[Gh0stFT]

Originally posted by lazs2
The insane should not be allowed to own firearms

very interesting, but who decide who is insane and who not?
i doubt you need to be a criminal to count as a insane. At one point
we all are insane a little and some more
I know some people who i belive are not insane, but with a little help with
alcohol they can get "insane" beyound your imagination.
Now add a firearm to this sitiuation to get the results nobody wanna see.

[StarOfAfrica2]

The problem there is our criminal justice system is a joke.  

If they would just enforce the laws on the books now and stop trying to ban everything that shoots a bullet, I'd be satisfied.  The laws are rather restrictive, but tolerable as they are.  

If given a choice, I would do away with the barring of those with misdemeanor "violent" crime convictions, and make it necessary to have your case reviewed instead.  That way those with BS convictions have a chance to not lose their rights unilaterally.

I'd also like to see a federal mandate that restricts states to controlling (or banning) concealed carry and/or carrying a loaded gun within certain areas.  Otherwise state laws should not be allowed to infringe on our Constitutionally protected 2nd Amendment rights.

[Chairboy]

Originally posted by Eagler
while in prison? what about after they are released?
I think once they get to have a vacation in the big house, the right to bear arms should be gone for good. Isn't it that way now? Sorry not up on al the latest gun laws as I do not understand some fascination of guns and fast or expensive cars - always thought they were lacking in something/somewhere and were trying to compensate for their short comings

My disagreement with you on this is the implicit assumption that someone cannot ever pay their debt to society.  I'm with Lazs on this, if someone serves their time, then it should be done with afterwards.  Our current setup keeps punishing people for the rest of their lives for a mistake they might have made decades earlier.  Rehabilitation is not only possible, it must be the eventual target of our prison system unless we want to keep a permanent underclass of folks who can never advance to fully productive members of society.

[Chairboy]

BTW, I'm generally of the opinion that the only gun control should be a good eye and a steady hand.  An armed society is a polite society.

Lazs's compromises seem reasonable, I suppose, if it's the difference between a nanny state that takes _all_ guns away....

[lazs2]

Star.... you are ok with no fully automatics allowed or even being built?  If you aren't in jail then there is no crime that should take away your human rights.

I would do away with parole.  It does not seem like a good idea.

The sad truth is that the way most criminals stop being criminals is.... they get to old to be.   They simply outgrow it.

as for "insane" I will settle for the legal defenition.   There should be some cutoff on IQ to where if they have the IQ of a child then they could only shoot in the care of an adult.

Background checks would still be needed but could be electronic and instant.

lazs