Author Topic: Remove drones from bombers (Read 6056 times)

Krusty · « **Reply #30 on:** August 25, 2006, 11:25:28 AM »

in AH, last night, at 15k, I was in a tail chase after some B24s. I was doing 350 (TAS) and the range was NOT closing. I only ended up closing because he turned around twice to hit the target again.

I'm not making this up! [EDIT: Sehob went after the same guy, he can vouch how frickin' fast he was going. My squady Brogy can vouch for all the swearing I did at how fast this guy was.]

The AH fighter chart page needs to expand to include speed/climb for bombers! That might open folks' eyes a bit.

WilldCrd · « **Reply #31 on:** August 25, 2006, 11:26:26 AM »

Well if you factor in HT desire for us to work together as a TEAM then the 3 buff formation is fine as is.
Origianlly and i may be mistaken here. HT desighned it so that taking out the 3 buffs would be harder for a single pilot. in WWII it took whole squadrens to take out buff formations not a single guy!
And there are certain "tricks that im sure we are all aware of to kill the bombers.
i understand where your comming from krusty and I do think some things with bombers needs to be addressed like the dive bombing thru their frames and dive bombing in a buff in general.
they couldnt do it in IRL and they shouldnt do it here.
Ofcourse im of the opinion that we should have the bomb skipping ability here as well, saw it on the military channel again the other night.
If bombers are at high alt its going to take awhile to catch em but, i've never seen bombers flying at 350+

If your going after bombers with a group and its just to "get the kill" and everybody is wanting to beat the other guy to get the scores, then your working against each other BUT, if your defending a base and you work together like one guy drawing fire while the others kill the buffs you will efectivly stop the raid and the base will live.
The hard part is getting people to work together fro the greater good...sounds cheesy i know but it is true. bombers can only shoot 1 target maybe 2 if they have a gunner with em at any given time. If you have 5 guys going after them and 2 are the bait that leaves 3 fighters to attack the bombers unmolested.

tatertot · « **Reply #32 on:** August 25, 2006, 11:27:09 AM »

i AGREE WITH AK i never can turn at a great speed without lossing at least 1 drone sometimes 2 ,and all the planes seem to catch me p40s hurris spits whatever they are,could this have been a lag issue on your or j=his part?

we will never have complete balance in the game as far as buff pilots vs fighter pilots but niether did the allied and axis during ww2 thats how a war is won 1 gets the upper hand in military power and stratigic plans!!!!!! just a buff pilots 2 cents

Krusty · « **Reply #33 on:** August 25, 2006, 11:35:04 AM »

Wildcard: If I recall he said he didn't want any one bomber to take out anything, so he wanted teamwork for the bombers. Fighters are fighters.

Also most folks don't fight each other for the bombers. It's a semi-organized group attack on them, and whoever gets them we congratulate (I do, at least, and I've heard others do it) -- we just want them dead regardless of who killed them. This is for Knights. Bish/Rook may vary.

To everyone that doesn't believe me: How many times have you been in a FAST plane, and pulled alongside a bomber set trying to get in front of it? I have many times. You have to sit there at 1.5k off the bombers' wings and wait.. and wait... and wait... you NEVER get in front of them. It takes 5 minutes or more. Then if you DO get in front of them you have to go out 3K before you turn back at them because they're going so damned fast they cover 3K distance in a matter of 5 seconds (I'm not kidding) they come up at you so fast you don't have time to turn around and aim. If you don't, you have to start the "fly alongside" thing again, and wait... and wait.. and wait... Just to get ahead of them.

They are too fast. They have been for years. It's time something was done.

hubsonfire · « **Reply #34 on:** August 25, 2006, 11:35:44 AM »

Short answer; because if HT made buffs difficult, only a small percentage of the players would fly them, and the whines, just like when the calibration was made more difficult for a few months, would be deafening. They would be relegated to hangar guard duty, and the emails and phone calls HTC received from players threatening to quit would bury them, and derail any and all other work being performed.

Super Buffs may be bad for gameplay, but they're good for business. We won't be seeing any changes soon, IMO.

Dichotomy · « **Reply #35 on:** August 25, 2006, 11:41:18 AM »

krusty you going to be on tonight?

I had a thought that I'll up from a base away from the fighting.. climb to say 15k and you pick a base I'll fly over. And you come get me I'll stay at consistant max throttle and let's film it.

Thoughts?

I've got squad op at 11 Eastern but other than that I'm not busy from 7 ish central to 11.

Krusty · « **Reply #36 on:** August 25, 2006, 11:44:36 AM »

I might be. However DA might be a better place. I don't know if I'll be on for sure. It's going to be a late day at work for me. I might not be on til tomorrow or Sunday.

Bronk · « **Reply #37 on:** August 25, 2006, 11:47:24 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by hubsonfire
Short answer; because if HT made buffs difficult, only a small percentage of the players would fly them, and the whines, just like when the calibration was made more difficult for a few months, would be deafening. They would be relegated to hangar guard duty, and the emails and phone calls HTC received from players threatening to quit would bury them, and derail any and all other work being performed.

Super Buffs may be bad for gameplay, but they're good for business. We won't be seeing any changes soon, IMO.

DING!!!!! DING!!!!!!!! DING!!!!

We have a winna.

Bronk

Krusty · « **Reply #38 on:** August 25, 2006, 11:49:56 AM »

Okay I can see making the bombers "survivable" -- but this is like making bombers into the tempest of the fighters! You don't have to turn, just run as fast as you can and you're safe. You shoot anything and one hit means death!

This isn't "survivable" -- this is "uber". If you take away the drones you cut their defensive firepower to 1/3, but that's still 4 times more guns shooting at any given target than did in history. That's still going faster than any bomber flew in combat in history. Removing the drones lessens the impact, but the bombers are still "survivable" -- they simply lose the "uber" title.

Husky01 · « **Reply #39 on:** August 25, 2006, 11:50:19 AM »

This right here proves that the game is turning into a furballs paridice. Guys complain about "lazer" guns but half the time you fighters attack us straigt on 6 what do u think is going to happen? I my self love bombers and are in them mot every day and i know for a fact that if my buffs are attacked properly the con is very hard to shoot down but when 95% of the aream climb up to me in the la7 and spit 16 at 15- 20k sitting on my 6 its a easy kill for me.If your complaining abot getting shot down by a buff u most likely didnt attak it properly couse if u do attack a buff proply its vertully impossible to get shot down inless the buff guners is absolutly amazing. "This is in my own oppion".

Now about the 350 mph buffs did the buffs dive in from a higher alt.. what kinda buffs were they. I mean when im up at 20k in my 24s i push right around 290ish mph. But ur right a normal bomber cant go 350 mph might be something fishy there:noid

~~Boys thats jsut my imput~~

Target2 · « **Reply #40 on:** August 25, 2006, 11:53:18 AM »

Hey Krusty

I haven't experienced this. I fly Spit 16's most of the time and have never had any trouble catching or killing bombers (when I actually hit the target that is). This week I caught and killed a set of 24's in 3 passes. However, I do see what your are saying. If a level fighter doing 320 -350 TAS is chasing a bomber box that is say 7K out, it should take less than 10 minutes to catch them. Assuming a 100MPH difference in airspeed. A 100mph difference in airspeed = 1.66 mile gain/minute. 7k is about 4 miles, so it should take about 6.5 minutes to catch the bombers. It would be interesting to test this at some rear base in the MA. Take up a set of 24's and have someone chase in a fighter. You can compare TAS and check the rate of closure to see if it is a problem or perseption.

Krusty · « **Reply #41 on:** August 25, 2006, 11:55:30 AM »

goldelocks, I get pissed at bombers even when I take no damage. It's not a matter of "I'm mad because I was shot down". I'm mad because the bombers are too fast and too lethal.

The bombers were B24s. 15k They were level for at least 30 minutes, because they shot down sehob before I got there, they flew away from me for 10 minutes more, then for another 10 minutes of chasing them inside icon range. The problem with your argument, goldelocks, is that you have to (by circumstance) be already over, and in front, of the bombers to make "a proper attack". If they are already at your alt, already at speed, and flying away from you on any angle you can spend 20+ minutes setting up "the proper attack" -- only if you miss you have wasted 20 minutes and the bombers are now 2 sectors closer to the target, or 2 sectors closer to 50+ cons that will help them out as they land, or whatever.

Dichotomy · « **Reply #42 on:** August 25, 2006, 11:56:13 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
I might be. However DA might be a better place. I don't know if I'll be on for sure. It's going to be a late day at work for me. I might not be on til tomorrow or Sunday.

The only reason I suggested the MA is to be sure we're on realistic settings. PM me when you want to do it be it tonight or tomorrow and we'll work something out because now I'm genuinely curious

Krusty · « **Reply #43 on:** August 25, 2006, 12:00:11 PM »

I just did the math. A bomber (or plane) doing 350mph will cover a 25-mile-wide sector in less than 5 minutes. If your attack setup and execution (because you're in a tail chase) takes 20 minutes that means the bomber has crossed 4 sectors and you're probably out of WEP and gas by then, all for 1 attack setup. THAT is why there are so many dead-6 attacks.

Target, there are some bombers that are slower, because they were climbing out and only leveled at the last minute. I myself (when bombing) will slow down to equalize my speed faster, often dropping bombs at 200mph max (less time to wait for speed to even out). Those are easily caught, for sure. However if you catch a con that's level and arrived on the scene already level, you won't catch him unless he's heading toward you.

EagleDNY · « **Reply #44 on:** August 25, 2006, 12:02:39 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKWarp
350??? which friggin uber buffs do you guys have? My B24's will hardly exceed 250 true after a long, level acceleration period.

I have no trouble getting shot down in my buffs. A single good pilot in a 190 or even a pony will take me out every time...all three of me.

A single buff would be a sitting duck.

Conversely, I have no problems catching buffs at alt either. Yeah, it can take some time to climb to them if they are really high, but once I've decided to go after some buffs, I've never failed to catch them. Whether or not I kill them all is another story, but that's more to do with my flying than anything.

No, the three buff formation is fine and isn't uber by any means.

Unless somebody is putting RATO units on those b-24s, I can't see how they get up to 350 in level flight. If your having trouble catching them in a Ta-152, I'd be looking at the Ta-152 flight model to see whats up....

EagleDNY
$.02