Remove drones from bombers

[Krusty]

Again. I was full WEP for 10 minutes chasing these guys. I ran out toward the end. I was doing 350 TAS at 15k, and they would only barely get closer after a long time (maybe a 10mph closure rate).

don't confuse TAS and IAS.

EDIT: It was APDrone, ask him how fast he was going.

[APDrone]

Originally posted by Krusty
in AH, last night, at 15k, I was in a tail chase after some B24s. I was doing 350 (TAS) and the range was NOT closing. I only ended up closing because he turned around twice to hit the target again.

I'm not making this up! [EDIT: Sehob went after the same guy, he can vouch how frickin' fast he was going. My squady Brogy can vouch for all the swearing I did at how fast this guy was.]


The AH fighter chart page needs to expand to include speed/climb for bombers! That might open folks' eyes a bit.

I might have it filmed, Krusty.  I'll have to check. If so, I'll put it up on the web and post the link in here somewhere.

I think the whole speed issue may be because most likely everybody is running full throttle all the time. No concern for engine overheating and such.  

So, if bombers have a bit more power in the 'redline' zone than normal fighters, I can see where there may be some speed issues.

Also, by the time you caught up to me, I only had 5 or 6x 500lbs left per craft, so I was semi-light.   I also was running on reduced fuel load ( I never up a B24 with 100% gas.. the constant stall buzzer on auto-climb is bad enough at 75% )   I normally take off with 50%.

BTW.. very nice form on slicing away at me, however, my gunnery was horrid.. you shouldn't have survived.

[Flatbar]

Limiting the ability to dive bomb with them is, IMO, all that's really needed.

I fly the 110-g2 alot and buff hunting with it is one of the things that I have a lot of fun doing. The 110 isn't a speed deamon but with patients, good angles and gunnery, killing bomber formations is easy and fun.

IMO, if you die a lot trying to kill buffs then you need to change tactics. If you are having a hard time catching buffs then you are, in most cases, not choosing the proper merge angle. Chasing down buffs from an alt disadvantage is only going to work if you have the patients to turn that advantage around.

Buffs aren't the problem, it's the tactics of the attacker that determine the outcome, IMO.

[mussie]

Here are the Tour 79 and 78 stats for Formation Capable Buffs vs all models, make of it what you will.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Krusty
Okay the reason bombers have drones doesn't apply anymore. They are not this defenseless little thing that they used to be.

Last night was a PERFECT example of why bombers need drones revoked.

15K B24s were hitting a port. I'm in a TA152 flying toward them. I'm 15k as well. I'm on full WEP and I can't close into icon range until they turn around for another pass at the port. THEN I can barely keep up. I'm 1.5k out for 5+ minutes at full damn throttle, doing 350+ in a Ta152, and the bombers are as fast as I am! This is bullcrap!

Hell the B29 could barely do 350 steady! Yet every bomber in this game does well more than it  ever did in any historical mission (EVER). Add to that the fact that any 1 bomber can fire up to 7 50cal guns in any direction, then multiply it by 3 (3 planes in formation) and you get 21 guns that kill instantly.

I came up on a bomber set last night and in a spit16, unloaded directly into the wing root of a lancaster. All I did was blow his bomb bay door of (rriiiiight, suuuuure... 80+ 20mm and the only thing that comes off is the bomb bay) and in his first ping, literally his first ping he gives me a pilot wound AND rips my tail off. Lag was nonexistent.


So you have bombers that are nearly impossible to catch when flying the planes that were best able to catch them in real life. You have bombers that are 4x more lethal than normal (up to 4 gun positions firing at target at any given time), multplied times 3 planes (12 times more lethal), and you have a problem with gameplay balance.

Bombers are unbalanced. They need to be slowed down, or stripped down.

I don't see us slowing the bombers down anytime soon. So we need to remove the formation option from bombers.

I've been on many HQ raids where the enemy were struggling to keep up. sure after 10-15 minutes they might kill you, but that's 10 minutes of constant chase.

I've been AFTER many HQ raids as well! Unless you're flying a Me163 at 650mph, there's often slim to no chance you can catch up to the enemy in a tail chase.

If this were the case, WW2 would have ended in 1942 with complete bomber supremacy going to the allies.

EDIT: Hell, or even ended in 1940 with complete bomber supremacy going to the axis!!

Learn how to engage bombers and you won't have any problems with them when you encounter them.  


ack-ack

[hubsonfire]

Unfortunately, Mussie, without discounting bails, augers, deaths to ack, deaths to explosions, vehicle fire, CV guns, etc, that info isn't very useful.

Consider the guys like Fortress and Giganto who come in on the deck, salvo all the bombs, then bail out or dive into the ground, and the guys  who'll send wave after wave of formations into the side of a fleet to sink the carrier, or the guys who use formations to lure the vulchers into wasting all their ammo, or the guys who'd up bombers at a vulched field en masse to break that same vulch. There are a lot of bomber deaths that fall well outside a simple a2a engagement at altitude between a few fighters and a formation.

Just saying.

[mussie]

What do you all think of the idea of single buffs but a dam site tougher...?

[BlueJ1]

Originally posted by mussie
What do you all think of the idea of single buffs but a dam site tougher...?

[mussie]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
Unfortunately, Mussie, without discounting bails, augers, deaths to ack, deaths to explosions, vehicle fire, CV guns, etc, that info isn't very useful.

Consider the guys like Fortress and Giganto who come in on the deck, salvo all the bombs, then bail out or dive into the ground, and the guys  who'll send wave after wave of formations into the side of a fleet to sink the carrier, or the guys who use formations to lure the vulchers into wasting all their ammo, or the guys who'd up bombers at a vulched field en masse to break that same vulch. There are a lot of bomber deaths that fall well outside a simple a2a engagement at altitude between a few fighters and a formation.

Just saying.

Damit Hub

Again  Your comments are clear well thoughtout and unfortunatly I have to agree correct (so much for the last 20 minutes compiling that data)

Hub (or who ever the hell you are )

[Krusty]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Learn how to engage bombers and you won't have any problems with them when you encounter them.  


ack-ack

As I said to BlueJ, this isn't a matter od "learn how to kill them".

The entire point of this thread is that they are too capable, regardless of how many I kill I'm still going to be royally pissed off that I had to chase one bomber for 150 miles just to catch up to it. That's not counting engaging it and shooting it down.

[mussie]

Originally posted by BlueJ1

My thoughts were along the lines of atmosphere...

You get shot to ****e and struggle to get the smoking creaking shell of what was once a B-17 back to base....

I always find that fun (look ma no engines)

[Kermit de frog]

I don't believe Krusty when he says the bombers were going 350 at 15k.  Not even at 25k can the b24 go that fast.  Unless it's in a dive then I guess it can sustain a speed of 350, but not for long.

I like the idea of having to have a reduce throttle setting if you choose to up in a formation and want to keep it tight.

[Krusty]

I'm tellin' ya! I was doing 350TAS in a TA152 and was not closing for a long long time. I was following his dot before he came into icon range, and he only did that because he turned 180 degrees. Then I got in close but could barely do anything because he was so fast.

[Krusty]

I'm tellin' ya! I was doing 350TAS in a TA152 and was not closing for a long long time. I was following his dot before he came into icon range, and he only did that because he turned 180 degrees. Then I got in close but could barely do anything because he was so fast. I think sehob heard me swearing about how fast they were, too.


EDIT: I think the formation throttle-back idea has merit. As long as it doesn't affect max climb, only level speed.

[MadSquirrel]

There it is in a nut shell.  TAS vs. IAS.

As for catching up to my buffs?  I never seem to have a problem being caught by fighters.  Or catching up to a formation and passing them if I am in a fighter.  But if you expect to spot a formation from the ground, climb up to 15K and IF you catch them and don't expect to get your spinner shot off, guess again.

You want to shoot down buffs?  Start and co-altitude or higher and use tactics.  If I have dropped my ords and got noob fighters chasing me, I go into a slow descent to get that extra speed and run for friendlies.  Yeah, I can get 300+ IAS, but take a buff up and try to dive to 350 IAS.  You can't.  The lift will overcome your control input and you will level off or rip apart.  Shooting down buffs is easy if you use your head and don't rush it like I see so many do.  The fighter jocks that use tactics and don't rush kill me every time.  So much for lazer guns and all those guns fireing at once.

I think you just went up against a smart buff pilot that was higher than you and ya couldn't catch him.

LTARsqrl   <>

P.S.  I am a GV driver not a Buff Jock and even I know this.  And if you fly smarter than the enemy, you will win no matter what your in.