Author Topic: Remove drones from bombers  (Read 6365 times)

Offline tedrbr

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Remove drones from bombers
« Reply #75 on: August 25, 2006, 01:55:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kermit de frog
I don't believe Krusty when he says the bombers were going 350 at 15k.  Not even at 25k can the b24 go that fast.  Unless it's in a dive then I guess it can sustain a speed of 350, but not for long.

I like the idea of having to have a reduce throttle setting if you choose to up in a formation and want to keep it tight.



Heck, I set my throttle and man at reduced settings so I can hit strats from 25K to 30K with one or two salvos.... increases my accuracy when my buff is dead level and on course well in advance.  Full throttle in most heavy buffs induces a steady climb.  (Love watching LaLas and Spits claw their way to altitude to try and take me on as well).

Never got any of my prop buffs THAT fast though.  Ta152 isn't really great around 15K anyways.... and last few I took up show signs of a very weak radiator from when I first flew them.  Cannons less effective now (ballistics). Seems to be nerfed to me.  I never take them up any more.  He still should have had 100mph advantage on them without WEP.  Could it have happened?  Sure, see bugs below.  Would it happen all the time?  Not unless the game has been seriously hacked by many people, in which case the same could be done to fighters as well.

Without a film, hard to say what really was wrong.  I've been hunted by patient fighters riding stick on capable buff killers for long distances that have chewed me up over time.  I've seen countless pilots try (usually unsuccessfully) to take me from a dead six or low six position, or come at me with planes unsuited to killing buffs.  Impatient pilots usually fail, although some do get lucky when they come in fast and hard.

I *have* noticed in large formation flights of buffs there will sometimes be one or two flights that are reportedly loaded like the rest, or even upped from a mission, that simply "walk-away" from the rest of the group, whereas other stuggles and never manage to keep up with the rest.  Has to be something wrong there, lag issue, throughput on PC side with some players, bug in the code, something, but it is VERY intermittent among different buff formations.

Get rid of the drones?  Heck most buffs fly without escorts.  We often don't run in large boxes.  What if we ran the ratio of 1 fighter for every two bombers like later in WWII Europe?   Fighter pilots got it pretty easy already.

As to ground hugging and diving heavy bombers...... I don't really believe in that sort of flying.  Suicidal flying.  Like defending flyers doing HO collisions cause they know they can reup right away, or fiddle with the connection to come out on top.   Weak.  
I'll run a B-26 or A-20 on the deck.  And I keep begging for a perked Intruder.  But those are low level rides, and intend on getting the plane home again.

Offline hubsonfire

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Remove drones from bombers
« Reply #76 on: August 25, 2006, 01:57:07 PM »
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Originally posted by Mace2004
WEP, Mil power and Max continuous are all different things.  
Mace


Doh, missed a few words in there. Read that incorrectly in your first post.
mook
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Offline tedrbr

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Re: More realistic bombing?
« Reply #77 on: August 25, 2006, 02:02:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by EagleDNY
I don't think it's the formations that are the problem, its that the bomb sights are laser accurate and there isn't any crosswind, flak bouncing, or cloud cover to inhibit dropping the bomb into the pickle barrel every time.  

From 15K (thats almost 3 MILES folks), bombs should spread out side-to-side quite a bit before impact.  Instead, we see a laser straight line of bomber destruction.  This same effect is what dooms an AH2 CV when a level bomber flies over, despite the RL experience that level bombers were lousy a hitting a moving target.  

I think cloud cover would be good improvement as well - not the hazy layer we have at 15K, but some actual broken, thick clouds at varying altitudes over the world, which actually move with the wind (wow, wind, what a concept...).  Buff drivers might even like the ability to dive into some cloud cover now and again, and you might even sneak a CV around in a weather front.

EagleDNY
$.02


I'll agree that bombs are super accurate from altitude without the wind.  I'd have to say we don't have wind because box formations of buffs hitting a target are rare in the MA.  Its a trade off.  You want realism, fly the SEA.  Buffs don't get bounced by flack, but lone high buffs attract all of the flak.  And we usually do not fly with an escort.  MA is not realistic.... it's a playground.

There still IS some spread of those bombs.  The first salvo is usually pretty close to on, but additional salvos do tend to spread out over greater heights.  It's why many buff pilots use very short delays at very high altitudes.

Offline Furball

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Remove drones from bombers
« Reply #78 on: August 25, 2006, 02:06:06 PM »
262
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Offline Krusty

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Remove drones from bombers
« Reply #79 on: August 25, 2006, 02:10:21 PM »
Ted, whilst the 109s and 190s and the p51s -- and hell 90% of all the planes in the game -- got a big boost with the code revision (2.06? 2.07? whatever it was), the Ta152 was porked and nerfed beyond belief. It is not bar none the worst late war plane in the game.

Historically it out turned tempests on the deck with the utmost ease, it was the ultimate fighter able to kill anything anywhere. In AH it just sucks. I fly it for nostalgic reasons.


APDrone said he had the film but I don't know if it'll work. I tried playing back a film on this map and it gave me a "missing object" error in the film viewer.

Offline Bronk

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Remove drones from bombers
« Reply #80 on: August 25, 2006, 02:15:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty


Historically it out turned tempests on the deck with the utmost ease, it was the ultimate fighter able to kill anything anywhere. In AH it just sucks. I fly it for nostalgic reasons.


 


Proof please.



Bronk
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Offline NCLawman

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Remove drones from bombers
« Reply #81 on: August 25, 2006, 02:18:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Flatbar
Limiting the ability to dive bomb with them is, IMO, all that's really needed.

I fly the 110-g2 alot and buff hunting with it is one of the things that I have a lot of fun doing. The 110 isn't a speed deamon but with patients, good angles and gunnery, killing bomber formations is easy and fun.

IMO, if you die a lot trying to kill buffs then you need to change tactics. If you are having a hard time catching buffs then you are, in most cases, not choosing the proper merge angle. Chasing down buffs from an alt disadvantage is only going to work if you have the patients to turn that advantage around.

Buffs aren't the problem, it's the tactics of the attacker that determine the outcome, IMO.




What do sick people have to do with catching bombers?  Are you throwing them out the windows to lighten your load?  Or are you throwing the patients bodies into the buff engines to knock them out?
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Offline SKJohn

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Remove drones from bombers
« Reply #82 on: August 25, 2006, 02:22:05 PM »
Our squad flies mostly bombers on squad night (Sunday), and we never seem to have a shortage of fighters able to catch us and shoot us down - even when chasing from the rear.

Re: formations - I love them.  Not for the combined guns effect, but because of how cool looking it is when you get 5-10 guys together in a buff formation.  It looks almost likes the films you see from WWII when you have 15 - 30 B-24's cruising along together!

As one who regularly gets shot down by bombers, it does seem a little on the unfair side when you have 21 guns all shooting at you at the same time, but OTOH if you're not right at the convergence point, the shots are spread out over a wide area - so you don't have 21 guns hitting you at the same time (usually. . .).

Offline Krusty

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Remove drones from bombers
« Reply #83 on: August 25, 2006, 02:23:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bronk
Proof please.



Bronk



2 Ta152H-1s vs 2 Tempests late in the war. The 152 pilot tells of not even pulling as far as he could and still easily out turning a tempest in front of him, and watching as (after several circles) the tempest finally stalls in. the 152 pilot never reached the edge of his envelope the entire time.

Offline viper215

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Re: Remove drones from bombers
« Reply #84 on: August 25, 2006, 02:25:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
:cry



I see you once a week come in here and complain about bombers......Keep buffs the way they are.
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Offline Bronk

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Remove drones from bombers
« Reply #85 on: August 25, 2006, 02:28:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
2 Ta152H-1s vs 2 Tempests late in the war. The 152 pilot tells of not even pulling as far as he could and still easily out turning a tempest in front of him, and watching as (after several circles) the tempest finally stalls in. the 152 pilot never reached the edge of his envelope the entire time.


Anecdotal

Skill of pilots come in to question.



Bronk
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Offline Krusty

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Remove drones from bombers
« Reply #86 on: August 25, 2006, 02:30:43 PM »
Only at first. After the 3rd circle or so it's all the plane. This is barely-over-the-trees flat turning. Sounds pretty much like you'd see in a plane-vs-plane flight test by any nation in the war :)

2 Ta152s engaging 2 different Tempests, and similar results for each set? It's getting closer to a real (albeit wartime) test, IMO.

EDIT: Let's take this one to the other thread, don't want to hijack this thread.

Offline Krusty

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Re: Re: Remove drones from bombers
« Reply #87 on: August 25, 2006, 02:31:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by viper215
I see you once a week come in here and complain about bombers......Keep buffs the way they are.


LOL A Furball wannabe. Give it up kid you lack the personality to pull it off.

Matter of fact your entire statment is false.

Offline Bronk

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Remove drones from bombers
« Reply #88 on: August 25, 2006, 02:35:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Only at first. After the 3rd circle or so it's all the plane. This is barely-over-the-trees flat turning. Sounds pretty much like you'd see in a plane-vs-plane flight test by any nation in the war :)

2 Ta152s engaging 2 different Tempests, and similar results for each set? It's getting closer to a real (albeit wartime) test, IMO.

EDIT: Let's take this one to the other thread, don't want to hijack this thread.



Sorry krusty...  put me in a A6m5 and guys like Levi in spit V will still out turn me.
I might live a little longer and that is all.



Bronk
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Offline KTM520guy

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Remove drones from bombers
« Reply #89 on: August 25, 2006, 03:32:51 PM »
Nobody told me about fast buffs. I want to fly some too. The ones I'm flying now only go about 200-225. I feel as though I've been left out.
Everything King Midas touches turns to gold. Everything Chuck Norris touches turns up dead.