Author Topic: legalize all drugs... (Read 2037 times)

Sixpence · « **Reply #105 on:** August 28, 2006, 01:03:55 PM »

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Originally posted by lukster
If pot is expensive now and cocaine is cheap why hasn't the trend reversed? Is it still more profitable to sell cocaine than marijuana? Is there no demand for marijuana?

There would have to be a change in supply for that to happen, it isn't profitable to smuggle pot, most people even grow it themselves now. Most of your pot is domestic now, but you can't grow it in great quantity.

lazs2 · « **Reply #106 on:** August 28, 2006, 02:25:10 PM »

mini... Ok... let's agree that petty crime will not go up or down... that there will allways be criminals. I would say tho that the big crime.. the gangs and the cartells will go down with legalized drugs. I think a lot of the petty criminals who steal soley to feed their habit will stop doing the risky crimes tho... I think the burglaries and convienence store holdups will go down.

sandie... I don't even think that doctors should perscribe the drugs unless that is what is wanted.... Like you... I would take the advise of a professional. I don't want there to be a big agency behind legalized drugs except to check the quality and purity of the drugs the manufacturer puts out on the market. I want the price to be low and availability high.

lazs

Jackal1 · « **Reply #107 on:** August 28, 2006, 04:42:13 PM »

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Originally posted by mora
MJ is of little interest to organized crime. The profits and addictivity potential are so low that it's not as good business as meth or coke, and therefore there's less supply than demand.

Say whaaaaaaaaaa????????????
Pot is the virtual backbone in a lot of organized crime operations. It`s what keeps things ticking.

Mini D · « **Reply #108 on:** August 28, 2006, 08:07:10 PM »

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Originally posted by lazs2
mini... Ok... let's agree that petty crime will not go up or down... that there will allways be criminals. I would say tho that the big crime.. the gangs and the cartells will go down with legalized drugs. I think a lot of the petty criminals who steal soley to feed their habit will stop doing the risky crimes tho... I think the burglaries and convienence store holdups will go down.

History tells us the same groups will just find something else to smuggle and sell.

Crime is not a result of the drug trade. The drug trade is a result of crime. If the drug trade is removed, crime will simply move on like it has in the past.

x0847Marine · « **Reply #109 on:** August 28, 2006, 10:01:24 PM »

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Originally posted by lukster
All I'm doing is asking what an ounce of pot costs today. I know what it cost 35 years ago but have no idea what an ounce costs today. I'm curious to see how low the "war on drugs" has driven it down as has been claimed by some here. I'll allow for inflation of course.

What kind of weed?, there are dozens of new strains today. "Stress" or "Schwag" can be found $35 .5oz, it weaker & harsher but will get the job done.

A good Kush, like Triple OG , goes for $70 1/8th at the medical MJ store, about $10 less elsewhere. Other type of kush go from $30 - 50 for 1/8th

Different strains produce different highs, almost like the difference between having a beer (Stress) or a shot of Jack (Kush).

mora · « **Reply #110 on:** August 29, 2006, 05:02:40 AM »

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Originally posted by Jackal1
Say whaaaaaaaaaa????????????
Pot is the virtual backbone in a lot of organized crime operations. It`s what keeps things ticking.

Well at least in here it isn't. People grow it themselves and distribute to their friends.

lazs2 · « **Reply #111 on:** August 29, 2006, 08:24:17 AM »

Mini... I am not sure that the lesson history gives us is what you think it is... the criminals would be hard pressed to smuggle anything illegal that brought so much a pound and so much percentage of profit.

what would it be? during prohibition it was booze.. booze was relatively compact for the money and the profit was high per pound and original cost... when that was over they went to drugs...

Drugs are king... nothing that can be smuggled will be worth more per pound per % profit. except maybe plutonium and... the average person will not be the market for that so.....

What would replace mind altering drugs as a smugglers new object? What smuggled goods would possibly fuel that huge cartells and street gangs?

There is none.

The war on drugs is the problem. It is a war on freedom and a war on our dollar. It is a sure fire way to create criminals and flood our legal system and grow gangs... It is a way for the government to create more secret police agencies and fund them with our dollars.

lazs

Jackal1 · « **Reply #112 on:** August 29, 2006, 08:28:15 AM »

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Originally posted by mora
Well at least in here it isn't. People grow it themselves and distribute to their friends.

Oh..........Finland.

There are some pretty sizeable grow operations here. A lot of the states that were "family farm' areas before small farms were made unprofitable and unsupportable have some grow operations. A lot of these people are old farmers and their families just trying to get by. The problem usualy arises when it comes to the distribution/sales end of the crop. You step on the wrong toes, invade some group`s territory, etc. and the fecal matter hits the fan. You either quit, go through their channels (read that taxation without representation

), or expect a severe change in the health department.
The grow operations are nothing compared to the tons upons tons of pot that is smuggled in each year though. It`s big business.

Mini D · « **Reply #113 on:** August 29, 2006, 06:55:03 PM »

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Originally posted by lazs2
Mini... I am not sure that the lesson history gives us is what you think it is... the criminals would be hard pressed to smuggle anything illegal that brought so much a pound and so much percentage of profit.

I believe you need to read up on history.

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Drugs are king... nothing that can be smuggled will be worth more per pound per % profit. except maybe plutonium and... the average person will not be the market for that so.....[/b]

You believe what you want lazs. You seem to think "smuggling" is the issue. You're wrong. Criminal behavior is. Whatever the criminal needs to do to survive, he will do.

What will replace it? I dunno. Kidnapping? Extorsion? Robbery? People who are ill equiped to make an honest living aren't going to miraculously figure it out when drugs become legal. Talk about your left wing fantasy views.

Legalizing drugs will do nothing to curtail violent crime, petty crime or any other crime. The people that commit these crimes will just have to find something else to justify it. This is not that difficult.

lukster · « **Reply #114 on:** August 29, 2006, 10:31:53 PM »

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Originally posted by Mini D
Legalizing drugs will do nothing to curtail violent crime, petty crime or any other crime. The people that commit these crimes will just have to find something else to justify it. This is not that difficult.

I'm inclined to agree. Gangs aren't going to disappear because their illicit drug revenues dry up. How about we do a test run to see what happens? I vote we test in Kalifornia.

lazs2 · « **Reply #115 on:** August 30, 2006, 08:50:16 AM »

mini... neither you nor I know what criminals will do if an easy, highly profitable and allmost risk free source of money like drugs dries up.

One thing is certain... we have a lot of non english speakers coming across the border simply because of the opprotunity to make good money on drugs. If that dried up then they would be reduced in numbers.. If the gangs had no customers for drugs.... what would they do? How would they support the hundreds of thousands of members they have? Nope... the gangs would pear down. The worst of em would simply switch to burglary and extortion and home invasion and such but... those type of criminals have a short career.

I don't know what you meant about history since crime went down when prohibition was repealed. the gangsters who tried to convert to bank robberies and such all met with a short lifespan.

It is like illegal immigration.. in a way it is illegal immigration... stop the lure and the problem goes away. In the case of illegal immigration... you can arrest the employer.. In the case of drugs... the lure is millions of users.... you can't arrest em all or even make a dent in em... employers are sitting ducks.... drug addicts and recreational users are elusive and clever targets.

Let's fill the prosons with real criminals. drug users are not criminals in my opinion.

lazs

Nifty · « **Reply #116 on:** August 30, 2006, 09:17:08 AM »

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Originally posted by Mini D
Legalizing drugs will do nothing to curtail violent crime, petty crime or any other crime. The people that commit these crimes will just have to find something else to justify it. This is not that difficult.

excepting, of course, possession of drugs. I know someone with a criminal record that only has drug possession convictions on it. If drugs were legal, that person would not have a criminal record at all.

lazs2 · « **Reply #117 on:** August 30, 2006, 02:18:24 PM »

yes... obviously the guys who use recreationaly or for whatever reason will no longer be listed as criminals. Also.. there is a large group of "dealers" who are doing so only to support their habit that would probly drop out of the ranks of "criminals".

lazs

wooley · « **Reply #118 on:** August 30, 2006, 03:11:47 PM »

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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
People abuse drugs because they have a problem...

Undoubtedly social and medical problems are a huge contributers to the highly visible problem of hard drug addiction. But crack and meth destroyed addicts are a minority. For the majority of drug users, the reason they take them is simple - its fun.

Growing up in ninties Britain 'rave-culture' I witnessed literally thousands of people, form all walks of life taking drugs - mainly ecstacy, cocaine and pot - having the time of their lives and in most cases suffering no ill-effects. To these people, the government's warnings of doom bore no relation to their own experience and there was huge resentment at the fact they risked criminalisation for a recreational activity they could not morally differentiate from drinking alcohol.

Obviously, some people did develop problems - some people weren't able to judge when enough was enough and subsequently lost jobs, got criminal records for possesion or supply etc, but the vast majority simply grew out of it without issue.

As long as people's experience contradicts the government's message, the government are going to lose the war on drugs.

Mini D · « **Reply #119 on:** August 30, 2006, 11:34:01 PM »

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Originally posted by lazs2
mini... neither you nor I know what criminals will do if an easy, highly profitable and allmost risk free source of money like drugs dries up.

OK... so strike that one. There's the fantasy world where people would somehow turn good and there's the real one where ****s will be ****s.

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One thing is certain... we have a lot of non english speakers coming across the border simply because of the opprotunity to make good money on drugs. If that dried up then they would be reduced in numbers.. If the gangs had no customers for drugs.... what would they do? How would they support the hundreds of thousands of members they have? Nope... the gangs would pear down. The worst of em would simply switch to burglary and extortion and home invasion and such but... those type of criminals have a short career.

Wow... that's "for sure"? On so many levels you make so many completely unsupported leaps in logic there really isn't anything to debate.

Illegals coming over because of the drug trade? Yah, that would stop if drugs dried up. You betcha. You have the cause and the solution both wrapped up so neatly that it's astounding.

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I don't know what you meant about history since crime went down when prohibition was repealed. the gangsters who tried to convert to bank robberies and such all met with a short lifespan.

Ummmm... you really need to visit up on that one. Criminals simply put their efforts into other criminal activity. You heard of gambling?

And, I've never heard the 30's described as a time of "low crime" by anyone other than... well... you right now. WW2 brought an end to the depression and reduced the crime rate for at least 7 years.

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It is like illegal immigration.. in a way it is illegal immigration... stop the lure and the problem goes away. In the case of illegal immigration... you can arrest the employer.. In the case of drugs... the lure is millions of users.... you can't arrest em all or even make a dent in em... employers are sitting ducks.... drug addicts and recreational users are elusive and clever targets.

What an odd argument for someone that said they were for increased penalties against someone that hired illegal alliens. Your flip-flop is duly noted and logged as "contradictory".

It's not the same, and I'm a bit suprised at how many times you have brought up illegal immigration after your initial post. I honestly think you're not really explaining your intentions behind it. Cut loose lazs, worst that will happen is you're called a racist again.

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Let's fill the prosons with real criminals. drug users are not criminals in my opinion.

You mean fill the prisons with illegal alliens?