T-34 usage (or Lack Thereof)

[Reynolds]

Now, I dont use the 34 very much, but I find myself fighting it a lot. If you can find a nice hiding place its perfect. I cant count how many times ive had one in my panzer sights, hit it a couple times, but it survived long enough to reverse into the trees where I couldnt get it. They are real good if you are a good shot, and patient.

[Tails]

Originally posted by Sombra
I think you're wrong. On the left there was TC/gunner, on the right loader.

http://www.wwiivehicles.com/ussr/tanks_medium/t34.html

Well, one way or another, someone was pulling double duty in a very cramped turret. Hence the slow reload.

[zorstorer]

Originally posted by Tails
Well, one way or another, someone was pulling double duty in a very cramped turret. Hence the slow reload.

Not really, the only real slow down in the T34 with a set up like this is the lack of SA while the tank was firing.  All you loose my not having a dedicated TC is the pair of eyes.

So HT must have found a source either for the maximum sustained ROF for the cannon or decided that it's too cramped to load any faster.

Also didn't the T34 have split ammo?

[SFRT - Frenchy]

There I was ... salivating ... in the confusion of the battle, the enemi tiger had parked 20y away, exposing his rear straight to my muzle. I shot once dead six right in the back ... I shot twice ... agonizing reload time. A third shot from 20y still fails to penetrate the Tiger rear bulk. The massive turret painfully starts to rotate toward my T34. As a glance of fear lights up my eyes, the loader calls "ready". One more round to save the day, my best chance is to disable the turret. I wait for the menacing enemy turret to be exactly at 90 degree, and I fire right on target.

... the tiger's turret keeps turning toward me, undisturbed. I unlock the escape hatch and jump in the grass, as the concussion from a violent explosion knocks me unconcious.

[Iron_Cross]

I did some offline testing in the T-34/76 and the results are interesting:

Test 1:
T-34/76 VS Tiger I
Range: 20m
Ammo: AP
Orientation: perpendicular ie 90 degree

Results:

Hits to the turret in hopes of causing loss of turret main gun are useless.  The projectile simply bounces off causing no damage.

Hits to the tracks and running gear are also useless, even tho a large hit sprite is generated indicating damage.  Attempts to detrack a Tiger should be avoided as a waste of ammunition.

Hits to the hull side have some effect.  Even at 20m it will take 6 rounds to destroy a Tiger I.  Sweet spot is the Schwarzcruz.


Opinion:

The T-34/76 is of no practical value in the MA.  It's speed and sloping armor is no compensation for its pathetic rate of fire, and lack of penetrating power for it's main armament.  A tank destroyer it is not, that role would best be served by the German Jagd series, or the Russian SU series of tanks.  

It would best be used as a building batterer for quick GV missions, but even here the slow rate of fire hampers it.

[OOZ662]

People have proven (and complained) many times that the T-34 can't do any damage whatsoever to a Tiger.

[Iron_Cross]

Originally posted by OOZ662
People have proven (and complained) many times that the T-34 can't do any damage whatsoever to a Tiger.

See, that's what I'm on about.

Seriously the T-34/76 is a useless hunk of bytes, a virtual hangar queen.  Might as well use the M-8 has the same efectiveness and shoots quicker too.

[Hades55]

** Test 1:
T-34/76 VS Tiger I
Range: 20m
Ammo: AP
Orientation: perpendicular ie 90 degree **

In reality the Tiger would be dead even from a serman, if so near.

[SAS_KID]

I use T-34's:cool:  I just bum rush the spawn point and pretty much shoot pnzr's at point blank they are great if you hit a pnzr and get a hit sprite cuz by then they are dead.

[E25280]

Originally posted by Yeager
Why did HTC model the T34 if the reload times built into the cannon are so poor that no one hardly uses it?

Why would the reload times be so different between the T34 76mm and the PNZR 75mm?  

Is there some sort of historical data on the reload time of the T34 76mm being so poor that HTC would actually pork the gameplay usage of the T34 to accomodate the historical data?

WTF is going on here?

Originally posted by zorstorer
Not really, the only real slow down in the T34 with a set up like this is the lack of SA while the tank was firing. All you loose my not having a dedicated TC is the pair of eyes.

So HT must have found a source either for the maximum sustained ROF for the cannon or decided that it's too cramped to load any faster.

I tried to do some digging to get at some internet-based source documents, and came up relatively empty due to my lack of patience and tendency to spend too much time on tangents . . .

What I was able to find spoken of generally is an 8 to 10 second reload time for the 76mm gun, while using the ammo stored in the turret.  Firing times actually got worse after that because of the ammo storage layout in the T-34.  After the 9 "ready rounds" were expended, additional shells were stored under floor mats at the bottom of the tank.  It also just so happens that this is where the spent shell casings fall.  Thus, the loader was hard pressed to keep the ammo flowing.

A few "anecdotal" references to German crews firing 2, 3, or even 4 times for every returned round were also peppered through my search.  But this could easily be due to poor SA by the Russian crews (to zorstorer's point) rather than the gun itself.

[OOZ662]

Originally posted by E25280
What I was able to find spoken of generally is an 8 to 10 second reload time for the 76mm gun, while using the ammo stored in the turret.  Firing times actually got worse after that because of the ammo storage layout in the T-34.  After the 9 "ready rounds" were expended, additional shells were stored under floor mats at the bottom of the tank.  It also just so happens that this is where the spent shell casings fall.  Thus, the loader was hard pressed to keep the ammo flowing.

Someone who "said" they were in a T34 at a museum "said" that the under-floor ammo storage systems didn't exist.

[E25280]

Originally posted by OOZ662
Someone who "said" they were in a T34 at a museum "said" that the under-floor ammo storage systems didn't exist.

Out of curiosity, do you know if it was the T-34/76 or the T-34/85?  The 85 had a much larger turret, and may have had a different ammo storage layout.

Or the intardnet sources could be completely wrong (yeah, like that would be the first time ever, wouldn't it:rolleyes: )

[MiloMorai]

Some info on the T-34 can be found here, http://www.gjames.com.au/chris/index.html

In a fighting tank 75 magazines** are stowed :

1. In the turret -26 magazines.
2. On the floor on the right hand side of the fighting compartment -8 magazines.
3. In the driving compartment -41 magazines

In a fighting tank modified for wireless set, 62 magazines are stowed :

1. In the turret 26 magazines.
2. On the floor on the right hand side of the fighting compartment -8 magazines.
3. In the driving compartment 28 magazines.

In a tank with wireless set (Commander's tank), 46 magazines are stowed :

1. In the turret -26 magazines.
2. On the floor on the right hand side of the fighting compartment-8 magazines.
3. In the driving compartment 12 magazines.

**magazines = rounds (bad translation)

[E25280]

Originally posted by MiloMorai
Some info on the T-34 can be found here, http://www.gjames.com.au/chris/index.html

In a fighting tank 75 magazines** are stowed :

1. In the turret -26 magazines.
2. On the floor on the right hand side of the fighting compartment -8 magazines.
3. In the driving compartment -41 magazines

In a fighting tank modified for wireless set, 62 magazines are stowed :

1. In the turret 26 magazines.
2. On the floor on the right hand side of the fighting compartment -8 magazines.
3. In the driving compartment 28 magazines.

In a tank with wireless set (Commander's tank), 46 magazines are stowed :

1. In the turret -26 magazines.
2. On the floor on the right hand side of the fighting compartment-8 magazines.
3. In the driving compartment 12 magazines.

**magazines = rounds (bad translation)

You inadvertantly picked the location of the machine gun magazines.  The positioning of the rounds for the main gun is unfortunately much more ambiguous.

The ammunition is partly stowed in the fighting compartment and in the bulkhead partitions and partly in special boxes. There are six boxes of 9 rounds and two boxes of 7 rounds. In a11 there are 68 rounds.

Stowage of Ammunition in the Bulkhead partitions of the Fighting Compartment

In the right partition, 3 rounds and in the left, 6 rounds.

Then it says "Stowage of MG Magazines" and continues with the information you quoted.

[MiloMorai]

All I can say is