T-34 usage (or Lack Thereof)

[zorstorer]

I know it is a PITA (pain in the arse) to reload the M2 Bradley, had to open up the deck of in the troop area the slew the turret to the correct position and have someone OUTSIDE the turret attach the rounds to those still in the magazine.

I am gonna go hunting for some sources.  

[bj229r]

On July 7th of 1943, single Tiger tank commanded by SS-Oberscharfuehrer Franz Staudegger from 2nd Platoon of 13th Panzer Company of 1st SS Panzer Grenadier Division "LSSAH" engaged Soviet group of some 50 T-34 tanks around Psyolknee (southern sector of the Kursk salient). Staudegger used up his entire ammunition after destroying some 22 Soviet tanks, while the rest retreated. For his achievement, Franz Staudegger was awarded the Knight's Cross.

On August 8th of 1944, single Tiger commanded by SS-Unterscharfuehrer Willi Fey from the 1st Company of sSSPzAbt 102, engaged a British tank column destroying some 14 out of 15 Shermans, followed by one more later in the day using his last two rounds of ammunition. sSSPzAbt 102 lost all of its Tigers during fighting in Normandy but reported 227 Allied tanks destroyed during the period of 6 weeks.

The Tiger is particularly associated with the name of SS-Haupsturmführer Michael Wittmann of schwere SS-Panzerabteilung 101, who was one of the most successful tank commanders of World War II. He worked his way up, commanding various vehicles, finally a Tiger I. In one day he destroyed over two dozen allied vehicles including several tanks, and single-handedly held up an entire advance until his tank was knocked out and abandoned at the Battle of Villers-Bocage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_I

(Saw a thing on History channel---Tiger took some 250+ hits during an encounter with T34's--still managed to drive some 40 miles before it croaked)

[Entr0py]

Originally posted by zorstorer
I know it is a PITA (pain in the arse) to reload the M2 Bradley, had to open up the deck of in the troop area the slew the turret to the correct position and have someone OUTSIDE the turret attach the rounds to those still in the magazine.

I am gonna go hunting for some sources.  

Thats how the tow launcher is loaded/re-loaded.......big 2 round box. Us 45t's used to make the track personell crank the launcher up manually for "mantenance purposes"....takes about 50 years with a little hand crank......lol.

[Urchin]

Originally posted by Iron_Cross
I did some offline testing in the T-34/76 and the results are interesting:

Test 1:
T-34/76 VS Tiger I
Range: 20m
Ammo: AP
Orientation: perpendicular ie 90 degree

Results:

Hits to the turret in hopes of causing loss of turret main gun are useless.  The projectile simply bounces off causing no damage.

Hits to the tracks and running gear are also useless, even tho a large hit sprite is generated indicating damage.  Attempts to detrack a Tiger should be avoided as a waste of ammunition.

Hits to the hull side have some effect.  Even at 20m it will take 6 rounds to destroy a Tiger I.  Sweet spot is the Schwarzcruz.


Opinion:

The T-34/76 is of no practical value in the MA.  It's speed and sloping armor is no compensation for its pathetic rate of fire, and lack of penetrating power for it's main armament.  A tank destroyer it is not, that role would best be served by the German Jagd series, or the Russian SU series of tanks.  

It would best be used as a building batterer for quick GV missions, but even here the slow rate of fire hampers it.

I'm not sure that the T-34 and Tiger have not been changed since I tested it when the T-34 was introduced, but my test gave somewhat different results.  

With a T-34 at point-blank range (<100 yards) I could disable the turret on a Tiger with exactly 3 hits to the same 'face' of the turret (i.e. front left, rear left, rear, rear right, front right- the front was impervious).  After the 3rd hit, the turret would be disabled, and a seemingly random number of hits to the same face would be needed to destroy the tank.  The facing required was ~90 degrees - even a variation of 5 degrees or so would bounce every single round.

I agree wholeheartedly with your analysis of the T-34s value in the MA.  So does the rest of the population it appears, with the T-34 garnering on average much less than one half of 1% of the total GV kills (even tank on tank I'd say the T-34 has a  great tour if it gets 1/10 of 1%).

[Karnak]

Many of us said at the time that the T-34/85 would have been a much better fitting tank for the MA.

[Reynolds]

Okay, I have found a use for it! Whe taking Vbases, have two or three as an assault unit! They form a spearhead formation, and an M3 slips between. Their fronatl armor portect the m3 into the base, whil the bigger tanks like panzers supress the enemy tanks. THe t34s take out the ack, and escort the M3 right up to the maproom. When one T34 gets killed, one of the remaining two may take his place depending on whether or not that side is more likely to be dangerous than the ramaining two. It works i tell you!

[KTM520guy]

Best use of the T34 is bait.

[Reynolds]

Originally posted by KTM520guy
Best use of the T34 is bait.

Or a sheild?

[stephen]

Id rather have an m4/Sherman if the darn thing had a better rate of fire than the T-34.
 I like the mobility, and it really is amazing how usualy a t34 can take one solid hit before exploding, but that gun fires so freakin slow!!

best tactic in a T-34 is the same as the m-8 in my eyes, run at full tilt, see the enemy 1st, work around for a rear quarter shot, and if that big ole turret starts easing around, run for the nearest obstacle to put bettween me and that Horkin 88mm...

Reminds me, one time im moving along at a good click running through trees to avoid the miriad of nme planes, when lo and behold I pass a tiger going the other way... I freaked and jumped into the turret and spun it around to get a shot in his rear, and fired......waited.....fired again....waited....fired again....long story short 5 rounds in his arse and nothing, the guy literaly had time to stop, turn his turret around, pour a cup of coffee, and blast me into the map room... the russians had alot of guts facing those things, and ive almost given up firing at em from a T34, better to find less dangerouse oponents.

[Urchin]

Well, I think our T-34 is a little undermodeled vis a vis the real thing.  

The T-34 did have "ready ammunition" in the turret, it was only after this was fired that the ammo in the bins in the floor had to be accessed.  Ours?  We get a loader that is stuck moving underwater.  

As far as penetration goes, even the vanilla 76mm had enough power to get through the sides and rear of a Tiger at point blank range.  A tungsten round was introduced in early 1943 that could get through the front at close range, and of course the T-34-85 was introduced in 1944.  

The T-34 does have its uses though, it is great for getting to a fight about 25% quicker than a Panzer IV, so you can be oneshotted and respawn and get there "fast" again!  Unless you have to go up a grade steeper than 1 degree - in which case you are better off in a Panzer or Tiger.  For some reason the only vehicles in the game that can traverse slopes are the Panzer IV and Tiger.

[Reynolds]

Okay, I got another use for it! When someone hides a tank in the indestructable, and there is no one around to help, and you need to kill him, up in the hangar with a t34. Start your engine and as it starts, start turning your turret. If he shoots, he will probably get your engine, in which case you turn the turret the final 45 degrees, and shoot the only shot you will get into his turret. If he doesnt get your engines, drive out, and think of a better plan. No this doesnt work in a Panzer, because the turret is slower, and it is slower to accelerate to get away.

[Nemeth]

to take on a tiger in a t34, take out the tracks, then go to the side w/ tracks (the tiger turret cant hit u there then) then start unloading on the side, it'll blow up sooner or later, just make sure udont hit the other track, or else u'll be in a world of pain

[Reynolds]

Originally posted by Nemeth
to take on a tiger in a t34, take out the tracks, then go to the side w/ tracks (the tiger turret cant hit u there then) then start unloading on the side, it'll blow up sooner or later, just make sure udont hit the other track, or else u'll be in a world of pain

Huh. Never thought of that... great idea!

[Knegel]

Hi,

imho the T-34 is good in general like it is, but the Tiger seems to be a "bit" to tough now!!!

I can park right behind a Tiger and it wont die by the 7,6mm, i doubt that is ok!!

Its also extreme difficult to destroy the tracks of the Tiger.
Before one of the updates i could kill the tracks with the 8.8 HE from long range, just by aiming next to the tiger, now this seems to be impossible. Even the M8 could do this from close range.

What i miss most in the T-34 is the possibility to move the view smooth around when sitting in the turrent.  In ALL other GV´s we have a MG there, so we can move the view around to scan the area with zoom, not so in the T-34. I always feel like a "Stiffneck" in it.
(maybe a good point for the "wish" forum. )

Greetings,

Knegel

[stephen]

yeah! just stick a pilot upthere with a 45 in his hands,, decent anti air then...lol:aok