Ki-84 Usage (or Lack Thereof)

[EagleDNY]

Originally posted by Krusty
I'd disagree. It's got the late-war 20mm that are almost as good as the Hispanos. It's also got a lot more rounds than a spitfire has, and a lot more 50cal than most planes have. The guns are evenly loaded so that they run out at about the same time, which is nice. I've got 7 kill sorties in ki84s before, WITHOUT reloading.

As for the climb: Once they were the king of climb, but the spit16 leaves them eating dust, for straight rate-of-climb.

I'm with you here Krusty - the 20mms on the Ki-84 are plenty lethal, and their ROF seems higher than those in the Niki.  There isn't anything you can't take on in a Ki-84 and not have a reasonable chance of success.

As for climb, you can get a lot more out of her off autoclimb.  I chased a Spixteen all the way up to 20K in a Ki-84, and he wasn't climbing away, despite what the charts say.  

EagleDNY
$.02

[Slash27]

Originally posted by Yeager
Why does the Ki84 get such low use in the MA?  

I never understood this. My theory is that it wasnt the plane people thought it was going to be when released. I heard so much bs about the Ki-84 prior and when it came out there was much whining when it wasnt "all that". I also see some exagerated negative claims about it in this thread I really dont agree with. Why noobs dont take to it Im not sure.  It took me a little bit of time to learn it so maybe no patience is a factor. Just a hypothosis though.

 I fly it quite a bit and love the plane.( Krustys skin is pimp too:aok ) Great performance and gun package. You can hold you own against anything in game with it. Well I can, I know some can do that in a C-47 but you get what I mean. The Spit 16 gave me headaches for awhile but now I got past that.

[tedrbr]

Why it does not get used:

* The Ki-84 does not have the cannons and ammo load that the Niki carries.  

* It's not particularly fast (although has good accelleration), though Ki-84 pilots find it fast enough for the most part.

* Not a tough plane that can soak up hits, unlike the F6F or Jug.

* It's not the best turner in the game - but can outrun, outclimb, or out accellerate those that it can't out turn.  

* It can hang on the prop and a great vertical fighter, but don't get too attached to vertical fight or someone with a lot of E will get you.

But, the Kia 84-Ia is my favorite defensive plane and furballer.   I like fighting down on the deck with it (which goes against conventional thinking in holding high E).  I'm not a great fitr pilots by any means, but I have my best luck with the Frank compared to rest of plane set.  

1 on 1 matches should often go to the Ki-84.  Usually it's the second or third enemy plane that gets me.  I've even managed to hold off three of four B&Z planes in a furball and get a few hits in.

[Benny Moore]

Originally posted by SuperDud
KI84 is my main ride, great plane. As for good fights, P38vsKI84.

You obviously like easy kills, then.  The Ki-84 out-turns, outrolls, outruns, and outclimbs the P-38 in this simulator.  The P-38's only advantage is dive.

The Ki-84 is by no means undermodelled!  On the contrary, it's usually overmodelled in simulators.  The performance which people are led to believe it had was only obtained in American trials.  The captured aircraft had high grade American fuel and better maintainance, and was stripped of paint and waxed.  It was also flown at far less than combat weight.  It never got any such speed in Japanese service.  The Ki-84 got in the field about twenty miles per hour less than it did in American trials.

[Bronk]

Originally posted by Benny Moore
SNIP

I dub the sir AmiKurrfy .  
Please carry on .



Bronk


Edit: Ohhh and a little piece of info for ya. In AH the KI is modeled with crappy fuel.  Once again carry on.

[Benny Moore]

Kraut.  And if it is, it's overmodelled.  The Ki-84 was not faster than the Big Three at any altitude.

[Kweassa]

You obviously like easy kills, then. The Ki-84 out-turns, outrolls, outruns, and outclimbs the P-38 in this simulator. The P-38's only advantage is dive.

 Sorry, not true.

Kraut. And if it is, it's overmodelled. The Ki-84 was not faster than the Big Three at any altitude.

 ...and nor is it any faster in AH. It s modelled according to Japanese grade of fuel, and its maximum speed is limited to 398mph at its best, with a limited 1 minute burst of WEP.

 Do you even play this game?

[Simaril]

Originally posted by Yeager
Why does the Ki84 get such low use in the MA?  I notice that it starts to compress early.  I have no clue as to the accuracy of this but it seems off that one of the best performing Japanese fighters historically gets such minimal use in the MA.  Perhasp this is indicative of a modeling error on the part of HTC.

How many people who frequent these boards (and still play the game of course)
actually have flown the Ki-84 as a regular ride?

Wondering....to really make the Ki84 shine, you pretty much have to manually trim...the auto trim castrates the planes' greatest strengths.

For the average "click and go" autotrim pilot, the 84 would seem pretty average, I'd think.

[EagleDNY]

Originally posted by Simaril
Wondering....to really make the Ki84 shine, you pretty much have to manually trim...the auto trim castrates the planes' greatest strengths.

For the average "click and go" autotrim pilot, the 84 would seem pretty average, I'd think.

Agree here totally - on autotrim, the Ki-84 will get beaten a lot by the Nikis, Spixteens, & La-Las, which is probably why it isn't flown by a lot of newbies.
When you take the autotrim off her, she can be a bit of a handful at low speed if you don't work those flaps just right.  Once you get her quirks down (and start to use them to your advantage), the Ki-84 really shines.  

EagleDNY
$.02

[Slash27]

Originally posted by Benny Moore
You obviously like easy kills, then.  The Ki-84 out-turns, outrolls, outruns, and outclimbs the P-38 in this simulator.  The P-38's only advantage is dive.

 

Not so much.

[Viking]

Originally posted by Yeager
Why does the Ki84 get such low use in the MA?  I notice that it starts to compress early.  I have no clue as to the accuracy of this but it seems off that one of the best performing Japanese fighters historically gets such minimal use in the MA.  Perhasp this is indicative of a modeling error on the part of HTC.

No it is indicative of the idiocy of sending your designers and engineers to fight at the front. The best performing Japanese late war planes were not a match for even the worst anybody else was flying.

[Kweassa]

No it is indicative of the idiocy of sending your designers and engineers to fight at the front. The best performing Japanese late war planes were not a match for even the worst anybody else was flying.

 
 There's a roomed to be spared for sympathy here, Viking. Japan was losing a war, and the largest war ever in the history of mankind. Fears of invasion was spreading through the populace.

 I'm not sure if the Americans (for instance), ever truly had a fear of war raging in their own homelands - but assuming such a thing might happen, in times of dire peril are you so certain that America would not call out a state of "every able-bodied man to arms"?

 In a certain sense, what you said about the planes are true. Many issues kept the Japanese planes from performing as intended, ranging from outdated design concepts to manufacturing troubles. However the Japanese did come up with some brilliant, potentially successful fighter designs and the Ki-84 certain was one of them. I think it may be due course to try to differentiate the problems of reality, and the problems of initial design flaws. You can't just all crunch it into one.

[Viking]

Sympathy? ... Sure, but it was still idiocy. The Japanese send their best minds to be killed at the front long before the war was hopelessly lost. Even when the Russians stood at the gates of Berlin the Germans didn't send their scientists and engineers to fight (though some of them did so voluntarily).

[Benny Moore]

Originally posted by Kweassa
...and nor is it any faster in AH. It s modelled according to Japanese grade of fuel, and its maximum speed is limited to 398mph at its best, with a limited 1 minute burst of WEP.

 Do you even play this game?

Do you?  The Ki-84 is several miles per hour faster at low altitudes (and accelerates far better).  Go look at some of the comparison charts or, better yet, do a quick test like I did.

[Viking]

Benny, please stop being such a twit.