Spit 14 and Spit 16

[skysnipr]

Why is it that the Spit 14(earlier model) is perked and the Spit 16(later model) is not? This seems a little odd to me. Am I missing something here?

[Krusty]

You're missing several things.

First and foremost is that the spit14 came AFTER the spit16.

Also as bad as the spit16 is, the spit14 is even more lethal.

[Furball]

simplified - spit 16 is really just a spitfire 9 with an american engine.

[Krusty]

Not really.. It's the best version of what is basically a spit9, with one of the more powerful engine setups. I still say it's worth 2 perkies (everybody has 2 perkies, but it makes them fly something else every other sortie)

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Krusty
Not really.. It's the best version of what is basically a spit9, with one of the more powerful engine setups. I still say it's worth 2 perkies (everybody has 2 perkies, but it makes them fly something else every other sortie)

Krusty, the Spit LF16e is exactly the same as a Spitfire LFIXe.  It's only difference is it has the Packard built Merlin 266 where the LFIXe has the Rolls Royce built Merlin 66.

They look, fly, operate the same.  If you restored a Spit IX today and put a Merlin 266 in it, you'd essentially change it to a 16.

If Pyro had called it a Spitfire LFIXe, no one would be grumbling, but he was wise enough to spread it out among the FIX, LFVIII and LFXVIe so that we covered 43-45 very well in 2 stage Merlin Spits.  

I do believe he listened to our suggestions to do the XVIe and in some regards it's almost too bad in that too many folks think that 16 must be better then 14 so it's uber.

They don't know the history of the Spits to understand its a 1945 LFIXe

Oh and just to set the record straight.  The XVI did come off the production lines after the XIV started down the lines as the XIV was operational in February 44 and the XVI in the Autum of 1944 around October or so.

Again it's still an LFIXe with the American Merlin 266 but those engines didn't start arriving for Spitfire use until later in 44.  Understand that IXs and XVIs were coming off the same production line and were so named depending on which engine was put in, so you could have a Spit LFIXe roll off the line in front of what was a Spitfire LFXVIe just because the second bird got an American Merlin

[madrebel]

similarly on the german side the G10 is better than and was produced prior to the G14.

[moneyguy]

at 20k the spit 14 kicks the crap out of the 16 for speed.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by moneyguy
at 20k the spit 14 kicks the crap out of the 16 for speed.

Not just at 20k... The Spit XIV is faster than the Spit XVI at any altitude and can manage 444 mph at best altitude. When Combat Tour debuts, you will have a greater appreciation for the Spit14... Up high, it is a very nasty adversary.

My regards,

Widewing

[Furball]

Originally posted by Krusty
Not really..

really!

[Krusty]

Originally posted by Guppy35
If Pyro had called it a Spitfire LFIXe, no one would be grumbling

There you have it wrong. The performance and total UFO flight model is where all the grumbling comes from.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Krusty
There you have it wrong. The performance and total UFO flight model is where all the grumbling comes from.

Krusty, for every guy who understands what the 16 is, there are 10 who think that because it's numbered 16 it should be better then 14.

What does it do that a 1945 Spitfire LFIXe shouldn't do?

the MA airwar is fought at the alts that the XVI was optimised for.  I fly the 38G almost all the time, with an occasional J or L flight.  I don't ever recall being 'fearful' of fighting a 16.  If I run up against someone like Stang in an 16, they'll more often then not get me in my G, but more often then not if its an average AH pilot I kill the 16 and I'm an average stick at best.

I just don't see what the fuss is all about.  When I was flying the 8 or 9 and fought 16s I could beat them unless it was a really good stick as the 16 drivers think they'll outturn the longer spanned wing IX or VIII.

Just because you see lots of 16s doesn't mean it's uber, anymore then the LA7, N1K or 51D like the majority of AH drivers fly.

THe average AH stick wants something he thinks he can win in and is easier to fly so they take what fits that.  The Spit is an easy bird to feel like you are a better stick when you fly it cause it does a lot of things well.  The real Spit did that too.

I've mentioned it before, but I was talking to a current Spit driver at Duxford last year.  He said it was almost unfair how easy the Spit was to fly.  His comment was they should have started training in Spits and moved to Tiger Moths afterwards as the Spit is so forgiving.  When he and another pilot flew their Spit V and Hurricane II to Malta last September for the "Merlins over Malta" bit, they both wanted to fly the Hurricane because it was more of a challenge to fly.

So what have they overmodelled in the AH Spit?  Sure sounds like the real Spit flew that way too

[MiloMorai]

Originally posted by madrebel
similarly on the german side the G10 is better than and was produced prior to the G14.

Oops wrong.

G-14 production began in July 1944 while G-10 production began in Oct 1944.

[MiloMorai]

Krusty instead of making dumb comments about a book, you should go buy it so that you have some idea about Spitfires.

What book? Spirfire: The History

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Krusty
There you have it wrong. The performance and total UFO flight model is where all the grumbling comes from.

Well, while the Spit16 is impressive down low, it isn't especially remarkable when compared to some commonly seen types. Consider these as viable counters to the Spit16:

Bf 109F-4
Bf 109G-2
Ki-84
La-5FN
La-7
N1K2-J
F4U-1D
F6F-5

Any of the above can prevail against the Spit16 off of a Co-E, Co-alt merge, assuming the pilot knows how to exploit his type's advantages and the Spit16's weaknesses.

Just remember one thing: The Spit16 is not a great turn fighter. It is, however, an exceptional E fighter. Knowing that, you need to get the Spit16 pilot to feel he can turn with you. If he does, he surrenders his greatest attribute and every one of those listed above can handily beat it in a turn fight, except the two Lavochkins, which are able to match it, but have twice WEP duration, meaning that if the fight is prolonged, they gain the advantage.

My regards,

Widewing

[Furball]

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