Author Topic: M1 garand owners (Read 853 times)

Dago · « **Reply #15 on:** September 02, 2006, 02:27:38 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
I can prove that you are wrong and that the ought six is more powerful

Lets take a look at the Remington site for factory ammo ballistics for the most popular weight of bullets from both the ought six and 308 shall we?

for the 150 grain....

06.... 2910 mv and 2189 velocity at 300 yards

308....2820 mv and 2009 velocity at 300 yards

for 168 grain....

06... 2800 mv and 2404 at 300 yards

308... 2680 mv and 2143 at 300 yards

For 180 grain bullets....

06....2725 mv and 2188 at 300 yards

308... 2620 mv and 1666 at 300 yards!!!!

about 100 fps advantage or more in every weight and range for the

TADA.... OUGHT SIX

What about bullet drop? the ought six drops from 2.0 to 2.3 inches at 300 yards with every weight above while the 308 is from 3.9 all the way to 5.3 inches drop in the weights above.

What is with you and this obsession with power??? I never mentioned power, I talked about accuracy. They are differant subjects man!

Amazing that you have the definite knowledge that that 30-06 is such a superior round, when all the ballistics experts and all the worlds militaries don't see it your way.

Face it, the 30-06 is an old round that has been superceded by better rounds.

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #16 on:** September 02, 2006, 05:35:24 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
I have never seen anyone that has bought a CMP rifle that was dissapointed in the quality.

lazs

One of my CMP garands doesn't work. For some odd reason, it would cycle far enough back to eject the cartridge, however it would not get far enough back to catch the next bullet. We've had a gunsmith "Fix it." However, he just changed something and it would fire extra hot loads fine, but not mil-standard surplus. We didn't pay him for his work.

Anyway, CMP prices are going up because of Supply and Demand. Demand is going way up, and they are running out of lend lease garands. A good one is going to cost you more.

Maverick · « **Reply #17 on:** September 02, 2006, 11:23:07 PM »

Dago,

The 06 is the parent cartridge to the .308. They are the same projectile, same diameter, weight, taper,and construction. They are the same .308 diameter projectile, period. The .308 is simply a shortened 30-06 which means it shoots the same bullet but not as fast.

I said the 06 was superior balistically to the .308 because the projectile in the 06 is simply faster and carries more velocity with flatter trajectory and more downrange impact than the .308. That is the basis for the balistics superiority.

I would assume you would agree that the 300 Winchester Magnum is ballistically superior to either the .308 or the 30-06. It also uses the exact same bullet. Why is it superior? Because it shoots the projectile faster and flatter with more energy down range same as the situation with the 06 over the .308.

I like the .308, I have 2 of them including one set for silhouette shooting. It is still ballistically inferior to the 30-06 Garand I have even if the silhouette rifle is more accurate due to bedding and carefull fitting not to mention a bolt action vs a gas operated old tired Korean surplus battle rifle.

Now go back to my post earlier. Note that I said this: "Using the same care in reloading, the 06 is just as accurate as the .308 is." I did not say more accurate but just as accurate, given a rifle capable of equal accuracy.

As to your question about the 06 being better in any category, go look at some references for larger game requiring more penetration and a heavier bullet. Because of the larger capacity of the case the 06 is better for the heavier bullets 180 to 220 grains that give the deeper penetration through bone and gristle for the larger game. I'm not talking about small white tail deer, but the large brown bears and moose. If you need a heavy bullet at a long range the 06 is superior to the .308. If you need a flatter trajectory with any 308 projectile the 06 gives it to you over the 7.62 nato cartridge. If you need even a flatter trajectory with more energy than the 06 go with the 300 Win Mag.

Now take a chill pill, the .308 is a darn good cartridge but it is still a 30-06 short.

Dago · « **Reply #18 on:** September 02, 2006, 11:40:32 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Maverick
Dago,

The 06 is the parent cartridge to the .308. They are the same projectile, same diameter, weight, taper,and construction. They are the same .308 diameter projectile, period. The .308 is simply a shortened 30-06 which means it shoots the same bullet but not as fast.

I said the 06 was superior balistically to the .308 because the projectile in the 06 is simply faster and carries more velocity with flatter trajectory and more downrange impact than the .308. That is the basis for the balistics superiority.

I would assume you would agree that the 300 Winchester Magnum is ballistically superior to either the .308 or the 30-06. It also uses the exact same bullet. Why is it superior? Because it shoots the projectile faster and flatter with more energy down range same as the situation with the 06 over the .308.

I like the .308, I have 2 of them including one set for silhouette shooting. It is still ballistically inferior to the 30-06 Garand I have even if the silhouette rifle is more accurate due to bedding and carefull fitting not to mention a bolt action vs a gas operated old tired Korean surplus battle rifle.

Now go back to my post earlier. Note that I said this: "Using the same care in reloading, the 06 is just as accurate as the .308 is." I did not say more accurate but just as accurate, given a rifle capable of equal accuracy.

As to your question about the 06 being better in any category, go look at some references for larger game requiring more penetration and a heavier bullet. Because of the larger capacity of the case the 06 is better for the heavier bullets 180 to 220 grains that give the deeper penetration through bone and gristle for the larger game. I'm not talking about small white tail deer, but the large brown bears and moose. If you need a heavy bullet at a long range the 06 is superior to the .308. If you need a flatter trajectory with any 308 projectile the 06 gives it to you over the 7.62 nato cartridge. If you need even a flatter trajectory with more energy than the 06 go with the 300 Win Mag.

Now take a chill pill, the .308 is a darn good cartridge but it is still a 30-06 short.

Oh heck, truth is the 30-06 and .308 are almost perfectly matched in ballistics in GI ammo. 30-06 can push a larger bullet farther. Purty close to same thing.

lazs2 · « **Reply #19 on:** September 03, 2006, 11:30:23 AM »

dago... I don't think you understand what velocity and bullet drop mean... the ought six will send the same bullet farther with more power and less drop at the same ranges as a .308

You don't have to load the ought six to higher levels to reach the performance of a 308... it allready beats the performance of a 308 at all ranges.

You are getting accuracy of specialty rounds and firearms confused with ballistics.

the ought six has superior ballistics to the 308 in every bullet weight but especialy in the heavier bullets.

I don't know why you can't see that.

The differences are not enough to get excieted about but they exist.

The superiority of the 308 is the efficiency of the round coupled with being able to use a short action and the overall length and weight per round.

It is a good tradeoff to get less weight and shorter action and only have to have a slightly inferior round to the old ought six.

lazs

lazs2 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 03, 2006, 11:33:27 AM »

laser.. yours is the first cmp garand that I have heard of that had functioning problems... I have heard of many newly manufactrured M1's and M1a's that didn't work at all or were junk.

The latest price for standard grade CMP garands is still $425

This is a really good deal.

lazs

moot · « **Reply #21 on:** September 03, 2006, 12:19:38 PM »

How long is CMP going to sell it for that price?

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #22 on:** September 03, 2006, 01:53:48 PM »

Til they run out. Which will happen shortly.

Lazs- We would have switched it out once we found out it does not work, however the stock is beautiful and has singular wood characteristics I have never seen before.

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #23 on:** September 03, 2006, 03:13:51 PM »

Finally got my ODCMP Garands to the range yesterday. Worked great. And very accurate. ODCMP also sells ammo, and we were shooting Greek surplus ammo which comes with the rounds already in clips, in bandoliers. My shoulder is sore, but otherwise, good times.

moot · « **Reply #24 on:** September 03, 2006, 03:27:41 PM »

How significant, functionaly, are the differences in throat and muzzle wear between the Field and Service guns?

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #25 on:** September 03, 2006, 06:01:02 PM »

Good question. Mine (field grade) definitely shoot better than I do. I bet if you go to the ODCMP forums someone will have some data, e.g. average 100 yd groups for different classes.

One more thing, it's a PITA to load if you are left-handed. But once loaded it's no problem for a lefty as long as you keep your thumb away from the op-rod. Love the safety and the sight adjustments.

It beat the crap out of my shoulder shooting off sandbags, but it was very pleasant from a standing position.

Charon · « **Reply #26 on:** September 03, 2006, 06:33:59 PM »

I have my order in right now for a CMP Greek Service Grade and 1000 rounds of lake city M-2 ball. If you want a service grade I'd get one NOW, they are going fast. Already out of 1903s. FG and RG should be around for a while.

Went out shooting Saturday with my 1917 SMLE and my No. 5 jungle carbine. I didn't have time to get the SMLE to paper before the king screw sheared off. Fortunately no other damage done. The No. 5 shot like a champion through about 130 rounds or so. Much milder than its reputation would suggest - great little carbine. Found some real clean Indian .303 circa 1937/40 at a local gunshop. Bought 1000 going to get another 1000 next week 11 cents per round.

Charon

lazs2 · « **Reply #27 on:** September 04, 2006, 10:21:50 AM »

I think that so many garands were rebuilt and put on the shelf that it is really hard to get a bad one from CMP.

Of all the surplus rifles the smle is the hardest for me to get good cheap ammo for.

CMP is selling lake city stuff for $196 a thousand.... I don't know if there are any restrictions on purchase or not..

Mildly corrosive korean ought six is a lot cheaper and comes loaded in clips and packed in a free ammo can. After you burn up the ammo.....You end up with an ammo can and around 50 clips for about 75 bucks... oh, and the brass.

I have taken to reloading some ought six. Got a good deal on some winchester 150 fmj and 165 sp bullets and loaded em up to see if they were more accurate. groups were maybe 20% smaller than cheapo korean groups.

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #28 on:** September 04, 2006, 11:10:31 AM »

Woah! Charon, if possible change your order ASAP. The greeks treated their guns like ****. Last time I was in, it looked like they were carving on the stocks for fun.

Charon · « **Reply #29 on:** September 04, 2006, 01:00:05 PM »

Quote

Woah! Charon, if possible change your order ASAP. The greeks treated their guns like ****. Last time I was in, it looked like they were carving on the stocks for fun.

Yeah, that I do know. Unfortunately, that's the only SG option right now and I'm hoping the increased bore quality will be worth it -- maybe not. CMP does have a new drop in stock for about $100 if I get a piece of greek firewood.

Charon