A solution for low level Buff groups

[LYNX]

Originally posted by Killjoy2
This one is easy.

I'm hiring a friend to do nothing but destroy enemy ordenance.  I'll pay him by the ammo bunker.  There will be no more enemy buffs.

I'll set him to work 2 hours before I log on and I won't have to put up with the STUPID LANC BOXES at 1000 feet any more.  

Think of it.  No more dive bombing Lancs.  No more Lanc hovering over GV battles.  And it's not gaming the game any more than the BUFF salamanders are gaming it anyway.  

Wheew, I feel better.

Ere ere,  can you set up a collection fund I will contribute gladly:D

[MadSquirrel]

I see a lot of response from pilots here.  From a GV driver, I got another solution.  Say the average fighter sorty is 10 minutes.  If buffs up with a formation of 3 buffs (By buffs I mean 4 engine heavies) and fly under 2500 feet AGL or Dive bomb then they can't reup buffs for 10 minutes per buff.  If they want to waste thier buffs and crews in what was normally considered suicide missions, penilize them.  Dam Busters?  Check the survival rate of those raids.  They were somewhat successful, but at a terrible cost.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/dambusters/legacy.htm

617 Squadron, however, paid dearly for their success. Of the 133 men who took part in the raid, 53 lost their lives and 3 were captured having bailed out. Five of the Lancasters crashed or were shot down en route to their targets. Two were destroyed whilst executing their attacks and another was shot down on the way home. Two more were so badly damaged that they had to abandon their missions.

 

What I see more often than not from a GV point of view is a good Tank fight starts.  Some noob or vet gets his GV stuffed up his nose by some other GVers and ya don't see him for 10 minutes till he arrives in a formation of Lancs 200 feet off the ground, he pops up and dive bombs the GVs dropping 2000 pounds at a time on each Tank.  Someone will up and Ostwind and kill him or a fighter will rip him to shreds after a while.  And I can hear the "You play your way, I will play mine" crying now.  These are my observations.

Or the other extream, you will see a formation of "Fortress"es 200 feet off the deck, then the formation will pop up to 1000 feet, dive in dropping all it's ords and just fly them into the ground so they can reup faster.  That is lame.

Perking the formation I am not in favor of because it really penilizes the die hard Buff drivers that use buffs the way they were intended to be used.  And I don't care what side they are, 10 players flying buffs in formation at 15K+ is impressive no matter what.

F6 for bomb drop I am in favor of with a 5 second delay from F6 view to drop.

Low level drops were used with some limited success however they were rare due to the number of losses that occured when such tactics were used.  Mind you I am talking about heavies not medium or light buffs.

Now for the "You just need to fly cap to keep the buffs down".  If I could fly a plane, I wouldn't belong to a GV squad.  

LTARsqrl  <>

[Killjoy2]

So is this a historical sim or not?

HTC has spent how much engery getting the flight models exactly right.  If it's not a historical sim, why bother?  Each caliber of munition is modeled for an accurate flight path.  Why bother?  All the skins have to be historical.  Why bother if this is an archade game?

I think it's fair to use low level bombers.  Just perk the groups.  It'll work itself out.  Thats hsitorical.  If you loses are too heavy you'll stop doing it.

Dive bombing heavys?  Is anyone going to support this as historical?

[MadSquirrel]

Yes it is "a historical sim".  Maybe not an accurate representation, but it is a "Historical Sim".  Ya don't see people flying around in X-Wing Fighters do you?  No.  Historical aircraft yes.  What era?  WWII.  Can WWII fighters climb straight up to 35K?  No, because "Historically" they couldn't and didn't.

Now, in my opinion, what HTC was shooting for here is something that models as best they can, Historical WWII aircraft and vehicles and allowing us to do the rest.

During WWII did they recklessly endanger heavy bombers and their crews?  No.  But that is what is what I see.  People will fly buffs with no intention of surviving just to drop 42000 pounds of bombs on a tank that killed them.  And then after the tank is dead, just fly the buffs into the ground or bail out.  That goes beyond lame and extends right into poor sportsmanship.  But now people are using that tactic all the time and using the excuse that the tactic was used during WWII.  Well just because someone hits his or her thumb with a hammer doesn't mean it's a good idea and should be common practice.  
Bomber Command learned that low level bombing was a BAD idea and stopped using it due to the high loss rate or at best used it as a last resort.  In Aces High low level bombing has become the lazy players way of killing V-Bases, GVs and Hangers.  They can't hit their Arss with both hands at 10K, but at tree top level even the lousiest player in the game can hit a big building with 42000 pounds of bombs.  And gee he gets to see his name in lights if he carpet bombs 2 GVs that he couldn't hit from 100 feet with his Tiger.

If a box of B-26s or A-20s comes in, I don't really mind that.  Their ordinance is totally different than the heavies.  Vehicles and buildings have a fair chance of surviving that unless the B-26 or Havoc drivers are fairly good.

Put Heavies to altitude.

LTARsqrl  <>

[Simaril]

We can chatter all we want...but from prior threads its apparent that HT is planning to implement a damage lag, so that if someone dies too soon after bombs hit the damage will be reversed.

That will change tactics considerably, and other suggestions will likely be...umm...filed until the effects of HT's plans are seen.

Just sayin...

[Shifty]

Originally posted by Killjoy2
So is this a historical sim or not?

Let's see in the Main Arena you have three mythical countries represented by chess pieces all flying the same type of aircraft fighting over a map of a mythical area. I'd like to take a stab at this question..................... ........... NO

[Lye-El]

Originally posted by Waffle BAS
3 words for the phoneticaly impaired....plo-est-i

Was it defended with just 3 37mm guns?

[MIShill]

Originally posted by Lye-El
Was it defended with just 3 37mm guns?

That is the essence of the problem.We'll keep the use of low level buffs, but let's add 88mm anti-air at the fields.
-MI-

[Lye-El]

Originally posted by Killjoy2
So is this a historical sim or not?

HTC has spent how much engery getting the flight models exactly right.  If it's not a historical sim, why bother?  Each caliber of munition is modeled for an accurate flight path.  Why bother?  All the skins have to be historical.  Why bother if this is an archade game?

I think it's fair to use low level bombers.  Just perk the groups.  It'll work itself out.  Thats hsitorical.  If you loses are too heavy you'll stop doing it.

Dive bombing heavys?  Is anyone going to support this as historical?

You want history? How about you have to get a crew to man your guns? You get five guys to fly with you, you get to use 5 guns.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Kurt
Sure, but again you talk about low level and dive bombers in the same post...

Look, 4 engine bombers absolutely DID participate in tree top attacks... Get over it.

on RARE occasion yes. But not as a matter of routine

but really I have no problem with the low level bombers. When they are bombing level.

I have no problems with Dive bombing A20s or B26s

Lancs and 17s divebombing though is beyond absurd



bout as rare as a virgin in a Las Vegas Ho house

[soupcan]

Originally posted by Killjoy2
Again I don't mind buffs working at alt, but I've had it with this low level crap.

bwaaa haaaa haaaa....

u have got to be kidding me.........? no?????????

when i see low level buffs i say "HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO ME".

grab some cannons and its easy kills.

[soupcan]

Originally posted by MadSquirrel

During WWII did they recklessly endanger heavy bombers and their crews?  No.  

much as i respect u squirrel i gotta say:

sending heavy buffs in daylight, without escort,
to enemy teritory during the early part of the
bombing campain in Europe was clearly "endangerring" those
bombers and there crews.

seems to me expecting or excepting 75%
causualtie rate is pretty endangerring.

just my opinion or onion  or however ya spell it =)

[MadSquirrel]

I agree with ya there Soup, but they didn't send those daylight raids over at 200 feet.  

My understanding is that they thought at the time that the daylight bombings were the best idea and that the buffs didn't need fighter escort because of all the guns on the bombers and the box formation.  

They learned the hard way that it wasn't the case.

LTARsqrl  <>

[bj229r]

Originally posted by Kurt
Low level isn't crap, it was an actual tactic used by actual bombers in an actual war.

True enough, but they didn't do it as a SUICIDE maneuver---hangar killing is one thing, but it takes HOURS to get a cv somewhere that it might be useful, then some puke with Lancs who can't hit a turning cv comes diving in with 42k of eggs---if one plane gets thru, even on fire with half a wing, cv is gone. Just pisses me off that pukes overcome lack of skill/practice with dweebi-ness. Mebbe I'm in the minority. Our squad does cv killing missions now and again--usually with Ki67's, or a similarly disadvantaged plane---if we miss, we rtb and try it agin. I'd be embarrassed to death if someone saw me doing suiciding a cv with heavies

[soupcan]

Originally posted by MadSquirrel
I agree with ya there Soup, but they didn't send those daylight raids over at 200 feet.  

can't dispute that one you're 100% correct there.

btw i support the addition on 88MM flak guns:aok

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