Whining about play degradation?

[hitech]

mars:

Step 8. Denial.

[mars01]

Well HT it's your game and you can continue to be wrong if you want.  It's only going to hurt your game in the long run.  It's your bread and butter not mine.  

The way I see it, it's denial on your part.  If I were the only one, then you could be right. But when I look back at the guys you've lost since I have been around, because of game play, it becomes quite obvious to me.  And there are a lot of older vets that can attest to it as well.

Like I said, I love your game when I can log in and furball, I still get that feeling.  It's when gameplay blows to the point that furballs don't exist and fighting is sparse that it bothers me.


Yeah kuhn,

I agree, but most of the time I log in there isn't anyone in there.  So I end up with the MA.  If the map blows or the players on the map are hiding from one another I log.

[SlapShot]

Maps with Fighter Towns have allowed those that want to potatod to potatod and those that want to fight to fight and as I see it a win win for everyone.

Unless FT is completely taken over by one country ... and from what I just read ... the Rooktards just took all of FT ... so Bish and Knights are out of luck.

For those who are new, what Mars is talking about (I have explained this in another thread) is back when we joined Aces High the fights were generated by large squads trying to take bases and reciprocal large squads trying to stop them from taking bases.

We (Mars and I) flew with the MAW (3 squads x 32 pilots) and when we attacked a base ... it was the AKs (very large squad), along with other squads, that came to meet us head on and prevent the capture ... and vice-a-versa.

The fights went on for hours over just 1 base. Neither the MAW or the AKs gave up at the first sign of resistence and moved on to some un-defended base ... they usually kept banging heads until the base was taken.

That is the crook in Mars' craw ... we have HUGE squads/hordes (in all countries) taking UN-DEFENDED bases ... and hardly do they ever meet. Heaven forbid that they actually have to FIGHT and maybe die for their spoils.

Today ... once there is some sort of decent resistance to their attack ... they pick up their toys and look for another UN-DEFENDED base.

The path of least resistance is the way of AH now ... it was not that way just a few years ago ... and this is why gameplay has suffered or is suffering.

[Sweet2th]

Today ... once there is some sort of decent resistance to their attack ... they pick up their toys and look for another UN-DEFENDED base.

Exactly

The path of least resistance is the way of AH now ... it was not that way just a few years ago ... and this is why gameplay has suffered or is suffering.

Was that about the same time all the commercials started getting ran?

[Kuhn]

What do you think Hitec? This is your baby and some dont care for the way its grown. Do you just let them quit or at least try to make them happy. We all know you cant please every one. There are some valid points here. has the MA become what you invisioned or did you expect some thing else. (Growing pains suck dont they).

[Sweet2th]

But now that you are better and know what to look for and how defeat it, the perception of the game has changed for you. What was once challenging and difficult is now more simple. Where you used to get burned in a turn fight you now know how to employ measures and counter measures. So in essence the game is perceived as less challenging and therefore less fun.

That and the majority of players now a days want to take the easiest road to get themselves a kill.


The game play has changed drastically.a lot of these Vets that played AW knew all of the ACM's and were already at a set skill level when AH started up, but yet some of them are not here anymore for the very reason's described.

[mars01]

Was that about the same time all the commercials started getting ran?

I don't attribute it to the influx of new people.  New people are good.  What I do attribute it to is the loss of the fighter community at large.

Now that the community has purged many of the old vets that were here for the fight,  all you have left are the base capture guys and that mentality.  It's not about Air to Air combat tactics it's about what is the easiest way to take a base tactics.  So when the new guys get here that becomes their focus and Air to Air takes a back seat or is a thorn the base capture guys side that they have to put up with.

[mars01]

But now that you are better and know what to look for and how defeat it, the perception of the game has changed for you. What was once challenging and difficult is now more simple. Where you used to get burned in a turn fight you now know how to employ measures and counter measures. So in essence the game is perceived as less challenging and therefore less fun.

This is also incorrect, in a lot of ways.  Mainly because Air to Air combat isn't just move, counter move.  It's dynamic, it's very at the moment.  It's being able to know the airplane you up against, recognize the move you opponent is throwing at you, counter it and come up with a move to gain the upper hand.  This goes on till your dead and all has to be taken into accord with your environment.

It's something that even tho you may know all the moves you can still get beat.  That is what sets an Air to Air combat game apart from all other games.  Even when you know everything you still have to face others that know every thing and the fights rise to another level.  The fights get better when the community gets better and thus the game gets better.

The problem isn't that people are getting too good to enjoy the game, the problem is that this kind of game is a rarity in the MA.

[Dead Man Flying]

There is no doubt that this game has changed significantly from when it first came out of beta.  The number of players has quintupled, the number of fields quadrupled, the number of planes and vehicles doubled... and we are somehow to believe that the game has remained exactly the same despite such enormous growth in the player base and in the basic game itself?  We've seen the introduction of perk points and side-balancing mechanisms because the game never changed?

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that change has been bad.  However, if you keep the rules of basketball the same -- the size of the court, the three second rule, all of it -- but increase the number of players on one team from 5 to 20, the game itself fundamentally changes.  If you increase the size of the court to accomodate this increase in players, the game fundamentally changes again even if everything else remains the same.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[lazs2]

Yep... I could be way off but I think that if I had never played dos AW and then dos WB and then AH1...


I think that if I were a newbie starting out here I would not like the gameplay for the same reasons.

When AH was starting I came here from WB... there was an "odd" flight model here at the time.... every plane turned at what was, for all practical purposes... the same rate.

How that affected gameplay was that everyone went into a different direction avoiding everyone else and only attacked when they could be sure that they either didn't have to turn and could continue at full speed or... had an advantage and no one else was around so they could kill and then get back up in their perch...

HT changed the flight models and the gameplay drasticaly changed...

I had allready reached a level of skill that, mediocre as it was... was a peak for me... I did not become dissatisfied because of lack of challenge... I became dissatisfied because of poor gameplay... when the changes were made my interest came back.

I don't get bored with furballs or good simulated air combat.

I do realize that there is a minimum and a maximum distance for fields to be apart from each other.   Some have most fields at the maximum and some, like festers, have a whole lot of useful fields at the minumum.

I think that everyone sees that gameplay is different on these various maps.

my contention is that gameplay suffers at the maps with maximum settings and gameplay benifiets at the map/areas with a lot of fields at minimum distances.

I believe that maximum distances allmost force newbies to the whorde.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

[Lye-El]

Originally posted by mars01
It's being able to know the airplane you up against, recognize the move you opponent is throwing at you, counter it and come up with a move to gain the upper hand.  This goes on till your dead and all has to be taken into accord with your environment.

If a person doesn't have these skills and gets the snot slapped out of him 20 or 30 times he is going to play in a way that benifits himself. You may say by killing this guy over and over that you teaching him, it's the only way to learn is by dying over and over. He is probably thinking this isn't fun. And he is right. Killing somebody else is fun, getting killed, not so much. And getting killed over and over sucks.

Some guys may really want to learn this one particular method of combat and will practice and study. Others will say "Screw this!" Grab a fast cannon bird and get some success getting kills. He conciders that he is already more successful than he was trying to play the "other" way.

Others have neither the desire nor the time to invest in cartoon airplanes to get "really" good, so fly in the Horde so any lack of individual skills isn't so apparent or such a detriment to their survival.

Some, will never aquire such skills not matter how much time they are in the game so they play in a way they are comfortable with. Be it fast cannon birds, gv's, or bombers. Others like variety and are good doing some everything but don't excel in any one particular thing. But they have fun.

As far as FT being and excellent training ground, I see the same game play after a FT map as before a FT map and they play in FT the same way they play in any other horde they just don't have to climb as long. Same amount of Mano y Mano combat too.

[zorstorer]

Originally posted by mars01
...Circa the time I joined furballing was the rule and 90% of the community were there for the Air to Air combat.  The strat and base taking was a small portion of the game and in it's infancy....

The very first mission I joined after I was told what they were was a Rocstar mission.  To say he didn't run a well oiled mission is crazy.  Some nights we would take 10+ bases against defenders, not just milkrunning it.

You know they say the closer you hit the mark the louder the reaction

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Lye-El
If a person doesn't have these skills and gets the snot slapped out of him 20 or 30 times he is going to play in a way that benifits himself. You may say by killing this guy over and over that you teaching him, it's the only way to learn is by dying over and over. He is probably thinking this isn't fun. And he is right. Killing somebody else is fun, getting killed, not so much. And getting killed over and over sucks.

Isn't this how we all learned?  There's very little sense of accomplishment, which is a big part of "fun" in any skill game, if you don't have to first acquire the skill.  People don't start out winning at blackjack, or golf, or dominos.  They have to learn, and they get beaten repeatedly during the learning process.  Why would anyone want to play this game if he or she could start out being as accomplished as those with more experience?

- oldman

[SlapShot]

If a person doesn't have these skills and gets the snot slapped out of him 20 or 30 times he is going to play in a way that benifits himself. You may say by killing this guy over and over that you teaching him, it's the only way to learn is by dying over and over. He is probably thinking this isn't fun. And he is right. Killing somebody else is fun, getting killed, not so much. And getting killed over and over sucks.

So your saying that people just want to join this game and not have to learn anything ... wow ... this explains alot of what we see.

I wanted to be an All-State hockey player the day I put skates on at the age of 4 ... but guess what ... it took ten years of cold nights, cold mornings, bruises, cuts, and a whole lot of sweat and tears to get there.

Silly me to think that how people get better at something that they are passionate about.

Mars is going on 1 year (I believe) doing aerial acrobatic competition ... I fully expect him to fully sponsored by Red Bull at the end of this year ... I mean ... its only right.

[FBplmmr]

umm wouldn't defending against the "horde" create a furball?  

and arn't there hundreds of disatisfied veterans to do that?

or is posting against the horde more effective and satisfying?