Author Topic: New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates (Read 37335 times)

rod367th · « **Reply #780 on:** September 21, 2006, 10:16:37 AM »

Dale idea of three arenas is great, Except for 1 reason Knights do not have numbers during day to compete is 3 arenas. Have i changed to nit to fight horde yes. but alot don't want to be on losing side. I think a 2 sided game with 2 new team names would solve problem. Then both sides have to fight instead of bish , rooks ganging on 3 nits in arenas.

You have to make 2 new team names. that way no whining always been a NIT bish or rook. Make arenas 2 sided but not axies allied. That will force teams squads to even fight. No bullying little guys... but than i only have a penny so my 2 cents not worth it...............

Oldman731 · « **Reply #781 on:** September 21, 2006, 10:19:12 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Cable
Seems like whenever guys try to help make it more fun, the answer is ignore them or ridicule them. Nice community we have here.

Please re-read that.

Simaril, chief among others, has pleasantly and repeatedly tried to make the point that the change has occurred; that change would occur sometime in the future, anyway; and that there's no going back. Yet these boards are STILL full of "please change it back" posts.

It's not going to get changed back. You know it, I know it.

Instead of complaining about that, why not "try to help make it more fun"? Everyone can agree that that is a worthy goal.

- oldman

hubsonfire · « **Reply #782 on:** September 21, 2006, 10:47:09 AM »

Change is scary. It's a lot easier to sit here, threaten to quit, and then insult everybody who doesn't agree with you than it is to embrace something new and different.

But, what do I know? I'm a BK. I'm no asset to the community. I'm just a customer who has a singular interest in having fun in a game.

FALCONWING · « **Reply #783 on:** September 21, 2006, 11:03:22 AM »

Won't even begin to get into it with Laz...he knows what i think of him and his groups behaviors...enuf said

As for "cheating" or "exploiting"...please show me the rule book here..i am lost..sounds like someone created a rule just to spew more venom. there had to be a cap on how many get invited into a group..pick a number..make it low or high...that has nothing to do with how guys choose to associate themselves....there have always been Bish, Knit and rook coalitions and they will continue...give them a formal name or not they exist. Noone is cheating.

multiwing squads existed in AW and were here when BoPs moved to AH.

If you want to defeat the purpose of forming coalitions then change the objectives of the game...again i formally ask for base taking to be removed. people do what is fun...im sure if all there was left was fighting then people would follow what is fun and smaller engagements would more naturally ensue...the reason to use large numbers is because currently it only takes a few pilots to stop a base take...the way to overcome them is to overwhelm them...thats why you need large numbers (you could also have a timer to prevent constantly reupping so when you kilt someone they couldnt showup 2 seconds later and need to be killed again...that would take away the need for overpowering with large numbers)

and Hitech..noone is stopping us from dominating an arena now. We can choose any arena we want and choose to fly there...it will just be harder to stop us unless we distort the balance enuf for eny to hurt us. As i have said...BoPs will adapt...i dont think there are any of us that are too stressed about it...feel free to visit our forums..i know some of you guys are registered their as users...noone has done anything but come up with ways for us to work thru this...we only field about 25 a night so the caps dont limit us...but it may not be great for wherever we choose to work unless Minnow brings his squad there as well.

minnow and VMF..those fights were great..hope you fly some more...fiind the arena we choose to work in and fire it up.

My postings here have more to do with the community at large because i do miss seeing other bish squads we associate with...and some of my members who fly different arenas...

BTW i cant even name all my office staff...or all the doctors at the hospital but i still value them and their association with me. In real life i would be very upset as well if the Administration said..you should only have "x" number people on staff because there is no way you can know them all intimately...it would hinder growth and the "opportunity" to discover how great some of them are.

i never said everyone in my squad were my "best" friends in the world...but i do value a suprisingly large number of them given that this is a virtual world. I have plenty of friends in the real world and acquaintances..but i wouldnt start refusing to answer acquaintances phonecalls or go to their parties becuz i had to "concentrate" on a select few. would you?

doc1kelley · « **Reply #784 on:** September 21, 2006, 11:19:17 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
so donzo... these guys who claim to have 40-100 guys in their "squad(s) are what? Lying?

You do realize how silly your use of semantics here is? they are gaming the squad limits pure and simple. to me that is a form of cheating. Is that clear enough?

I guess if you can do it then it isn't cheating but... I have seen people get away with other forms and eventually it got shut down because it was bad for the game. I think the mega squad it just another example of a bad idea... a loophole that needs to be fixed. They are maybe more of a bug but a cheat...

But.... what do you call someone who exploits a bug? and brags about it.... and then whines when it is addressed?

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

When I first came here there were several "mega squads" and we didn't hear this blaming the demise of the game on them then. You now are violating the rules of the bbs with impunity with your accusations of "c**ating". Then you degress into the well if it isn't that, it's bad for the game and I guess next you'll want to ban folks from flying together as a group of not more than how many folks? Yes Laz, how many people do you want the game to limit to fly in proximity to each other now and just what are the limits of the proximity? This is clearly an immature rant on your behalf against those that aren't playing the game "YOUR WAY". This is NOT Burger King although you surely wish it that way, it's just not and never will be. You wonder why most of us just hate the BK's, it's because of the childish rants and insults and just pure venom that comes from a few of you guys. Let's talk about the bug you are now claming it to be... A squad is limited to X amount of players and is set by HTC, say they limit it to 4 and you have 12 guys that used to fly together and they will now make three squads and still fly together, what you gonna do about it? You are gonna accuse them of gaming the game. Your arguement is the most outlandish drivel that I have seen here. You want a first person shooter game using an airplane, a one on one all the time or an occasional few others just to throw into the mix. Go find you a solitary game that you can just fight one player and be done and leave us in peace. Now let's address your claim of those who have stated that they have members of squads in excess of the technical 32 person limit on a squad. You are correct, as no squads have more than 32 players, It's semantics at play, they are actually wings, a collection of several different squads into a wing. Do you remember Manx's 4-wing? It was here when I came back in 2002. We still consider ourselves a squad even though our total numbers might at any given time online exceed the 32 single squad limit. Sue us! We like to fly together, we have fun together, it's not your fun, it's ours and we like it that way. We can be limited by the cap of people in an arena at any given time, but it cannot change the game as a whole. By your collection of post on this subject, the only recourse is to change the entire game to be nothing but a dueling arena with limitations that will only allow you to pick your one on one fight against who you choose. That will not get it!

My only complaints on the recent changes are that the cap in the arenas are too small and the ENY needs to be redone, other than that... I have no complaints.

All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1

hitech · « **Reply #785 on:** September 21, 2006, 11:33:31 AM »

FALCONWING: Would you try manage 90 people directly, or would you break them into smaller manigible units, if so why?

That smaller unit is what a squad is all about. What you have called a squad, but realy it is more a group or wing in ah structure.

And once again this has nothing to do with the value of aquantences.

HiTech

SlapShot · « **Reply #786 on:** September 21, 2006, 11:35:12 AM »

awDoc1 ...

Back in the day I use to fly with a Mega-Squad ... the MAW ... three wings of 32 ... and flew for the Knights (they still do)

On squad night, we would have close to 40-50 squaddies on at the same time.

If we went offensive, there was another Mega-Squad on the Bish that took great pride in trying to thwart our offensive push ... they were the Arabian Knights. Many times we would launch and on the "All" channel, we would say where we were going to attack ... just so the AKs and others would come and fight us.

If we went on the defensive, there was another Mega-Squad on the Bish that took great pride in trying to capture our bases ... they were the Arabian Knights. Many times we would hear the the AKs were at field blah-blah and we would launch an all out defense to stop them.

Such is not the case these days ... Mega-Squads, for the most part, don't want to run into each other ... they want to attack areas of the maps where they don't run into great conflict so that they can capture bases faster than greased lightening so that they can be the pivitol point in winning the war.

Had Mega-Squads taken the attitude of the MAW and the AKs of years gone by, this problem might not have reared it's ugly head ... but such is not the case and here we are ... and here we will stay ... with the new changes.

My only complaints on the recent changes are that the cap in the arenas are too small and the ENY needs to be redone, other than that... I have no complaints.

Check out my thread where I have put forth an idea that just might help solve the population max.

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=187937

doc1kelley · « **Reply #787 on:** September 21, 2006, 11:55:55 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by hitech
FALCONWING: Would you try manage 90 people directly, or would you break them into smaller manigible units, if so why?

That smaller unit is what a squad is all about. What you have you call a squad, but realy it is more a group or wing in ah structure.

And once again this has nothing to do with the value of aquantences.

HiTech

Yes HT, it's true. The BOPS actually only fly together on a given squad night, all other times our members are free to do their thing, some of us like to GV, some Buff and some just fly fighters and we have a great time. The main thing is we have only two rules and that is we do fly together on squad night and we don't switch countries. That makes it pretty well balanced. We are NOT a structured wing, we have specialist and we bring them together once a week to put their skills together. Oh, you'll find us flying together in small groups in different areas of the map on any other given time but never as a whole as it would be unmanageable all the time. You'll find us fighting both sides at any given time other than a two hour period once a week. We have been demonized in this thread as a "horde" and our "wing" just doesn't fit that description at all. The majority of our "wing" started out together in AW and have drifted from squad to squad throughout the years and have found each other in here, the natural successor to AW but have also absorbed the refugees from some other wannabe communities that have failed to make the cut. The bottom line is the "horde" is nothing more than a security blanket and it more embraced by new folks than any other because our community has NOT responded in embracing new folks into our culture. Yes, we have trainers (I salute them), there aren't enough of them to go around and not enough hours in the day for them to be online. The "horde" problem is NOT the mega squads, as most of em only are engaged in a single objective for a few hours at a time on a given day.

All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1

doc1kelley · « **Reply #788 on:** September 21, 2006, 12:09:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SlapShot
awDoc1 ...

Back in the day I use to fly with a Mega-Squad ... the MAW ... three wings of 32 ... and flew for the Knights (they still do)

On squad night, we would have close to 40-50 squaddies on at the same time.

If we went offensive, there was another Mega-Squad on the Bish that took great pride in trying to thwart our offensive push ... they were the Arabian Knights. Many times we would launch and on the "All" channel, we would say where we were going to attack ... just so the AKs and others would come and fight us.

If we went on the defensive, there was another Mega-Squad on the Bish that took great pride in trying to capture our bases ... they were the Arabian Knights. Many times we would hear the the AKs were at field blah-blah and we would launch an all out defense to stop them.

Such is not the case these days ... Mega-Squads, for the most part, don't want to run into each other ... they want to attack areas of the maps where they don't run into great conflict so that they can capture bases faster than greased lightening so that they can be the pivitol point in winning the war.

Had Mega-Squads taken the attitude of the MAW and the AKs of years gone by, this problem might not have reared it's ugly head ... but such is not the case and here we are ... and here we will stay ... with the new changes.

My only complaints on the recent changes are that the cap in the arenas are too small and the ENY needs to be redone, other than that... I have no complaints.

Check out my thread where I have put forth an idea that just might help solve the population max.

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=187937

SlapShot
It's an interesting idea. As far as the mega squads thing, yes I remember the MAW and AK fights, we also have them as we had some leave the BOPS and form the Angry Inches who went to the LGA and we have consistantly been fighting each other for the last two months and have had great fights and has been for mucho fun on squad nights. Our "mega-Squad" or "wing" doesn't look for undefended terriroty to capture, we look for some fight and fun. Who wants to RTB with no kills? Who just wants to shoot a sitting target on the runway? Not me! It's been more challenging to us fighting against old squaddies that went rook in that they know our tactics and it makes it much more challenging. This whole mega squad thing is smoke and mirrors as it isn't what the "horde" is made of.

I hope some consideration is given to your thoughts on the population problem that you put forth in your thread.

All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1

Simaril · « **Reply #789 on:** September 21, 2006, 12:15:17 PM »

A question for the BOPs.

The other night, things were heavily out of balance it the MW. There was a brief 200 discussion (not a flame war!), and a squad or two shifted to the low side.

There was a lone BOP on, wont even recognize the name if you told me. He said, "I'd come over, but I'm in BOP and we're not allowed to leave Bish. If we ever do, we're not welcome back into the squad."

Comments?

doc1kelley · « **Reply #790 on:** September 21, 2006, 12:17:58 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Simaril
A question for the BOPs.

The other night, things were heavily out of balance it the MW. There was a brief 200 discussion (not a flame war!), and a squad or two shifted to the low side.

There was a lone BOP on, wont even recognize the name if you told me. He said, "I'd come over, but I'm in BOP and we're not allowed to leave Bish. If we ever do, we're not welcome back into the squad."

Comments?

Yes it's true, I wasn't there but the BOPS have only two rules, You fly together on squad night, and don't have to any other time and you cannot switch countries. It's been those rules since back in AW.

All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1

Simaril · « **Reply #791 on:** September 21, 2006, 12:25:08 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by doc1kelley
Yes it's true, I wasn't there but the BOPS have only two rules, You fly together on squad night, and don't have to any other time and you cannot switch countries. It's been those rules since back in AW.

All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1

In the current environment, what purpose does this rule serve?

How does this have ANYTHING to do with community, friendship, etc? Can you honestly say that the guys who chose to fly for a different chess piece cannot be worth knowing -- that "If you're HIS friend, you can't be MY friend?"

I'd argue that attitudes like these fracture the community FAR FAR more than the arena changes ever could.

It seems to me that its nothing more than a control, a power issue.

Mugzeee · « **Reply #792 on:** September 21, 2006, 12:29:06 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
I don't know falc... I know him by his avatar and his posts.

He calls himself and his illegal squad the "fun police"... he is anti fun.. he gives his location as "under your mom"

he brags about ruining others fun with the ability to cheat the squad numbers which....

He claims are 80-100 of his closest friends in life of which... he can't even name and has probly never met but a dozen of.

He goes apopleptic if he thinks he is being insulted or if some game element ruins his fun... maybe HT could call himself the "fun police" and then it would be all good?

He speaks of loyalty and, with catch in voice and tear in eye, talks of the "community" of taking undefended bases with 90 of his blood brothers and life partners yet... can't name half of em and at the same time.... is pretty much shutting himself..... and them... from the other 5000 players who are every bit as good a guys.

His style of play is no play at all... to ruin gamepay... he might as well be playing a boxed game or... a football game where he and his 10 buddies are against 1 bad guy who lives on the next block that they will never get to know.

I don't want to be part of his boring whorde and I don't want to be steamrolled by it.

The mega squads are bad for the community. period. Why have a 32 limit if a few squads can cheat it so easy?

in all this time I have never seen two base taking whordes run into each other and fite. I have fought some of the whorde members... they are amung the worst players in the game. They aren't any good and they will never get better in the whorde.

he threatens to quit and then in the next post takes it back.... Like I said.. don't know the guy but.... from the posts and, mostly, the way he plays the game ... don't want to. I used to say that I never met a flight sim guy that I din't like when we met... this new breed of mega squad guys.... not so sure if that is true now.

Those who will not play honorably and who are cheating the rules need to have their behavior modified. If they quit cause they can't cheat anymore.... I for one won't miss em.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

Lets try not to cloud the truth.

As I see it. Falcs "Fun Police" logo was simply a twist of comedy after years of you and players like you and incessantly whining and crying about your fun being taken away. Falc is 100x the person/ gentlemen you could ever dream to be. So can it.

What? you think i am the only one that sees that you spend 99.8% (estimate)

of your time trying to find a legal angle to insult ppl in the BBS?

Dont make me start copying and pasting the last 200 of your replies in one place.

Then again...anyone that is honest and rational knows this to be factual already.

doc1kelley · « **Reply #793 on:** September 21, 2006, 12:30:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Simaril
In the current environment, what purpose does this rule serve?

How does this have ANYTHING to do with community, friendship, etc? Can you honestly say that the guys who chose to fly for a different chess piece cannot be worth knowing -- that "If you're HIS friend, you can't be MY friend?"

I'd argue that sttitude fractures the community FAR FAR more than the arena changes ever could.

It seems to me that its nothing more than a control, power issue.

I cannot explain this now, as this has been a rule since I was first a BOP in 1996 or so, times have changed and changed in a very dynamic way just recently and may or may not involve changing this rule, but I'm not the one who decides these things and it was recently endorsed by the majority of the membership as of two weeks ago in an unrelated incident. I'm sure it will be looked at by our membership closely in the very near future.

All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1

FALCONWING · « **Reply #794 on:** September 21, 2006, 12:49:13 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hitech
FALCONWING: Would you try manage 90 people directly, or would you break them into smaller manigible units, if so why?

That smaller unit is what a squad is all about. What you have called a squad, but realy it is more a group or wing in ah structure.

And once again this has nothing to do with the value of aquantences.

HiTech

HITECH: as i addressed in an above post..we probably only have 60ish active BopS...perhaps to help people i can have my wing leaders clear out the rosters but a lot of guys showup after 6 mos of inactivity so we dont purge often

and again as i have already posted..on most nights we field about 20 players at a time...there are probably about 35-40 that cycle thru over 5pm to midnight est but in general around 15-20 are on channel at any given time.

except for mondays at 9-11pm est we dont have organized missions. most nights there are 8-10 that are doing something organized...buff missions...base retakes...defending a field. the only times i can think that we are really working hard together is if the bish are being pressed hard and we need concentration of forces to survive.

i dont find 20 people hard to interact or coordinate with...but again we are mostly having funny conversations and joking about.

porbably 25% of BoPs are loners who do their own thing but like the chit-chat and remain on channel...they come when called or on squad night...but they are not mission joiners etc.

in essence, if i understand CT properly, then we are an existing form of that style of play that i do for free. BoPs log on and ask what we need done and i'll ask them to up here or there or pork troops, grab an m3, etc.
I think that is what people like..comraderie and a sense of purpose to their hour on...