Author Topic: Muslims dont like the Pope  (Read 5527 times)

storch

  • Guest
Muslims dont like the Pope
« Reply #60 on: September 19, 2006, 08:06:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack





Not with current technology but with Carbon Dating and other techniques, we can come up with a pretty damn good idea how old something is and so far it shows that the world is a lot older than 6,000 years...



ack-ack [/B]
  ack thanks for your response.  I have time to answer this one from memory.  I'll answer the other points you bring up later as I hve little time for research today.

radio carbon dating is accurate up to about 50,000 years in the past and then only in once living samples.  beyond 50,000 years any quoted result is really speculation.

within the 50,000 year period there is a probability of error that is brought about the introduction of contaminants.  these may be atmospheric, in the form of industrial pollutants since the beginning of the industrial revoltuion and also from fallout due to atmospheric nuclear testing.

additionally microbes and fungi penetrating porous matter will give false readings.

radio carbon dating may be the most effective way of providing a good guesstimate but it is hardly conclusive.

Offline Angus

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10057
Muslims dont like the Pope
« Reply #61 on: September 20, 2006, 10:44:43 AM »
How about other methods, not omitting common sense?
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Seagoon

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2396
      • http://www.providencepca.com
Muslims dont like the Pope
« Reply #62 on: September 20, 2006, 03:07:09 PM »
Hi Storch,

It seems to me we've been around this particular Mulberry bush on the board about a hundred times with little or nothing to show for it. At the end of the day, the Darwinians simply discount any evidence one produces that shows that Darwinian evolution isn't just a theory full of holes, but holes expertly sewn together. They do this based on the presupposition that Darwinianism is true and logical, and that theism is false and irrational. Therefore,  if you are opposing Darwinian evolution, you must be an ignorant, uneducated religious fanatic, and that any evidence you produce must be religious mumbo-jumbo. After all, if the evidence you were presenting were true, then it would support Darwinian evolution, and you wouldn't believe in Creation. This is the presumption even if the evidence you present happens to be generated by an Atheist or Agnostic scholar, or even a life-long opponent of religion and Creationism like Stephen J. Gould.

That you may once have been an advocate of Darwinianism yourself, also doesn't matter, because if you aren't any longer, the only explanation that makes any sense for your changing your mind is that you drank the stupid juice. In what Stephen J. Gould called Darwinian Fundamentalism you are dealing with an faith that will not tolerate dissent and which uses anathematization as a weapon. You simply may not question this dogma if you wish to continue to teach, have tenure, or any academic credibility. In a recent case the EEOC found that the Smithsonian used almost medieval tactics to run out a man simply for allowing a peer-reviewed article to be published which questioned whether Darwin's theory does in fact explain the bio-chemical information explosion in Cambrian explosion (and bio-chemists know that Darwinianism - which preceeded biochemistry - simply cannot account for a host of facts about the nature of DNA).

Ultimately it's not a new argument though, and its not really even about Science, its about God. For millennia, men have been searching for a way to be rid of his "pernicious" oversight and influence on their affairs. He is like a parent who embarrasses and enrages his children so much that they'd much rather tell people "I'm an orphan actually". But for centuries, that was as far as they could go, they might maintain with Nietzche that their Father was dead, but they always had the embarrassing fact of their creation to deal with. Their own existence was continuing evidence of their First parent. It wasn't until Darwin came on the scene that they could do away even with that fact as well, and simply smugly answer the question, "Actually, I didn't have parents at all. Once there was nothing, but now there is me, and if you have me, why would you want a Creator anyway?"

I was reading Josephus (a first century Jewish Historian) the other day, and was reminded that he dealt with the same kind of attitude from the Epicureans and Stoics of his day, men who refused to acknowledge Divine providence in governing the world  (yeah, we haven't blown ourselves up only because we are all such nice, good, rational, self-created slime descendents - not to mention "lucky") and pointed out how the prophecies of men like Daniel showed that there was in fact a God ordering the affairs of men and were life really the mechanical process or driverless car they imagined we would long since have been destroyed -

Quote
And indeed it so came to pass, that our nation suffered these things under Antiochus Epiphanes, according to Daniel's vision, and what he wrote many years before they came to pass. In the very same manner Daniel also wrote concerning the Roman government, and that our country should be made desolate by them. All these things did this man leave in writing, as God had showed them to him, insomuch that such as read his prophecies, and see how they have been fulfilled, would wonder at the honor wherewith God honored Daniel; and may thence discover how the Epicureans are in an error, who cast Providence out of human life, and do not believe that God takes care of the affairs of the world, nor that the universe is governed and continued in being by that blessed and immortal nature, but say that the world is carried along of its own accord, without a ruler and a curator; which, were it destitute of a guide to conduct it, as they imagine, it would be like ships without pilots, which we see drowned by the winds, or like chariots without drivers, which are overturned; so would the world be dashed to pieces by its being carried without a Providence, and so perish, and come to nought. So that, by the forementioned predictions of Daniel, those men seem to me very much to err from the truth, who determine that God exercises no providence over human affairs; for if that were the case, that the world went on by mechanical necessity, we should not see that all things would come to pass according to his prophecy. (From Antiquities of the Jews By Flavius Josephus)


Nothing New Under the Sun, Storch. Same argument, different day.

- SEAGOON
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

storch

  • Guest
Muslims dont like the Pope
« Reply #63 on: September 20, 2006, 03:56:50 PM »
indeed seagoon but it can be entertaining and does add additional folds and wrinkles to an otherwise almost completely smooth brain.

storch

  • Guest
Muslims dont like the Pope
« Reply #64 on: September 20, 2006, 04:17:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Angus
How about other methods, not omitting common sense?
indeed there are other methods, there are radioisotopes and other radiometric data which are also reasonably accurate but there is plenty of evidence proving they are far from infallable and in many instances wildly inaccurate.

the bottom line though is that fallen man loathes accountability and as seagoon explains in his excellent post above, we will hold dear any theory that places a wall between ourselves and our creator.  even if it means being intellectually dishonest.

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Muslims dont like the Pope
« Reply #65 on: September 20, 2006, 04:22:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Seagoon
Hi Storch,

It seems to me we've been around this particular Mulberry bush on the board about a hundred times with little or nothing to show for it. At the end of the day, the Darwinians simply discount any evidence one produces that shows that Darwinian evolution isn't just a theory full of holes, but holes expertly sewn together.

- SEAGOON



Please tell us what concrete scientific data have any of the ID/Creationist provided that show that man and the universe was created by some omnipotent being?

While all the evidence of Evolution hasn't been discovered yet, what has been discovered has shown evolution happening.  Again, to cite an exampe again...whales.  Why do whales have a pelvic bone?  Is it because they were at one time mammals that lived both on land and in the ocean until eventually the evolved into pure marine mammals or did God just make a mistake and add an extra bone?


ack-ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline Suave

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2950
Muslims dont like the Pope
« Reply #66 on: September 20, 2006, 04:32:59 PM »
You're asking for scientific data representative of supernatural magic?

storch

  • Guest
Muslims dont like the Pope
« Reply #67 on: September 20, 2006, 04:50:57 PM »
there should be some heated debating on this topc soon. in the latest edition of national geographic in their fossils blurb there is a paragraph entitled "from fins to feet?"  naturally they are claiming the age of this find to be 370 million years old  never mind that there is no possible way to prove that age using the scientific method.  an educated guess would be that they have discovered a crocodillian.

this reminds me of a story.

a couple attended an art exhibition at the national art gallery that completely confused them.  the painting depicted three black men, completely naked sitting on a park bench.  the man in the middle had a pink noodle the other two were normal, they were black.

the curator of the gallery realized that they were having trouble interpreting the work of art offered up his assessment.  he went on for half an hour explaining how the paintaing depicted the sexual emasculation of african americans in a predominaantly white, patriarchal society.  "In fact" he pointed out "some serious critics believe the pink noodle also reflects the cultural and sociological oppression experienced by gay men in contemporary society".

after the curator left, a young man in a kentucky t-shirt approached the couple and said "would you like to know what the painting is really about?"

"now why would you claim to be more of an expert than the curator of the gallery?" asked the couple.

"because I'm the guy who painted it" he replied.  "in fact there are no african americans depicted at all.  they're just three kentucky coal miners, the guy in the middle went home for lunch."

:D

Offline Angus

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10057
Muslims dont like the Pope
« Reply #68 on: September 20, 2006, 05:00:05 PM »
So Storch, how old is our earth?
Sticking to those 6000 years (I belive our oldest cities are thought to be 7000 years old), or something more?
Was there an Ice age?
Are there fossils? How long does it take for them to build?
The dinoes, were they there?
And finally, - how do you breed stock and make severe changes to lifestock form in short time?
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline RedTop

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5921
Muslims dont like the Pope
« Reply #69 on: September 20, 2006, 05:24:50 PM »
So...Someone tell the Pontiff welcome to the wild wonderful world of the Infidel. No biggie
Original Member and Former C.O. 71 sqd. RAF Eagles

Offline dmf

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2920
Muslims dont like the Pope
« Reply #70 on: September 20, 2006, 05:42:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by RELIC
In retrospect, yes - catholics are child molesters...:rolleyes:


Just the priests :)

Offline bj229r

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6735
Muslims dont like the Pope
« Reply #71 on: September 20, 2006, 08:26:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
I would add that the "theory" was almost immediately accepted as the only possible answer.  people who have wanted to provide postive proof thereof have spared no expense and dedicated countless millions of man hours to that end.

"to know that you don't know is best.
to think you know when you do not know is an infirmity"

Lao Tzu


I didnt say it refuted evolution, it refutes DARwin's version of evolution
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers

http://www.flamewarriors.net/forum/

storch

  • Guest
Muslims dont like the Pope
« Reply #72 on: September 20, 2006, 08:30:38 PM »
darwinism is what I was referrring to.

Offline bj229r

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6735
Muslims dont like the Pope
« Reply #73 on: September 20, 2006, 09:14:54 PM »
chit sorry, clicked on wrong quote--

heck with it, ya spend 20 min looking up sources, refuting allegations, noone reads it or acknowledges it anyhow---life too short
« Last Edit: September 20, 2006, 09:20:46 PM by bj229r »
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers

http://www.flamewarriors.net/forum/

storch

  • Guest
Muslims dont like the Pope
« Reply #74 on: September 20, 2006, 09:35:12 PM »
but you learn, and you broaden your horizon.  that in and of it's self makes it worthwhile.