Sweden boots its socialist government

[lukster]

Those damn moderates. I'm sure Bush is somehow to blame.

[AKH]

Originally posted by bj229r
When people say 'the government pays for it"...WHO do you think that is?

By the people, for the people.

[lasersailor184]

By the poor, for the poor.  


Socialism is geared to keep the poor people poor, and enough money flowing to the poor people to keep them happy enough to vote socialist.  It's a huge joke.


But like margeret Thatcher said, "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

But like I say to the socialists, "Steal anymore and you'll meet me at the tip of my bullet."

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by soda72
That's were the poor get free band aids and a waiting list for any thing more complex, and the rich pay for their own health system becuase the free one sucks.  But then tell us that it's better becuase it's free.

hurray for socialized medicine?


Hell no..

Interesting, do you know what you're talking about at all?

5 weeks ago my wife found a small lump in her breast. We went to see our GP. The GP referred us for a scan a few days later. 1 week later we revisited the GP for the results, she didn't think it was cancer but if my wife was concerned we could see a specialist to be 100% sure. 2 weeks ago we saw the specialist, they took a sample for analysis. Last week we got the results (all good ). Total cost to us, NZ$10 (~US$6) for parking on the two visits to the specialist.

Also a point to note. That cost spend by country per capita is probably heavily skewed by the costs of medicines and health services in the US. I've seen some of the prices they charge and its incredibly insane. I suspect this is driven up by the reliance on the private health sector and insurance setup you guys have. IE, the USA spend per capita is exagerated due to price gouging by your medical industry.

[AKH]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
By the poor, for the poor.  


Socialism is geared to keep the poor people poor, and enough money flowing to the poor people to keep them happy enough to vote socialist.  It's a huge joke.


But like margeret Thatcher said, "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

But like I say to the socialists, "Steal anymore and you'll meet me at the tip of my bullet."

Who paid for your education?

[lasersailor184]

Who paid for your education?

My parents did.  They paid somewhere between 6-10 grand a year (depending on whether or not the socialists were in power) on my education from grade 1-12.  They paid around 8 grand a year for pre-K and my Kindergarten education.

Now I'm paying for my college education.  Me.  Not anyone else.

5 weeks ago my wife found a small lump in her breast. We went to see our GP. The GP referred us for a scan a few days later. 1 week later we revisited the GP for the results, she didn't think it was cancer but if my wife was concerned we could see a specialist to be 100% sure. 2 weeks ago we saw the specialist, they took a sample for analysis. Last week we got the results (all good  ). Total cost to us, NZ$10 (~US$6) for parking on the two visits to the specialist.

AKH makes a great point, even when he is not quick enough to realize he has.

All those things you went through are really expensive.  But the real question is not "How much did you pay?"  But, "Who paid for your medical treatment?"  It seems free to you, and great.  But somewhere in your country is an honest hard-working man (or woman) who has had their money STOLEN from them in order to pay for your luxuries.

[Bodhi]

Originally posted by AKH
Emergency treatment: No charge
Out-Patient treatment: No charge
Surgery: No charge
Hospitilisation: No charge
Requirement to satisfy: Citizenship

Yeah, I can see why you'd hate that.

I personally like the healthcare system I am in in the US.

I recently (last Wednesday) had an operation on my sinus's to remove some infected tissue and bone (chronic infection in bone) and my total expenditures too date will be roughly $500.00 for the year, with a $15.00 copay for the Dr visits.  The Doc suspected the problem, scheduled surgery, had me get two different CT scans, then after they were developed, I had surgery two days later.  Works pretty well in my humble opinion.  Oh, and I pay $ 0.00 out of pocket towards my medical benefits (employer covers all), other than my Medicare on my pay check.

Pretty nice system here too, and you do not have too wait or goto a teaching hospital if you are sick....  

[AKH]

My parents did.  They paid somewhere between 6-10 grand a year (depending on whether or not the socialists were in power) on my education from grade 1-12.  They paid around 8 grand a year for pre-K and my Kindergarten education.

Now I'm paying for my college education.  Me.  Not anyone else.

You get what you pay for.  Now please explain how taxation equates to theft.

AKH makes a great point, even when he is not quick enough to realize he has.

Cute.  Any more ad hominems you'd like to throw in?

All those things you went through are really expensive.  But the real question is not "How much did you pay?"  But, "Who paid for your medical treatment?"  It seems free to you, and great.  But somewhere in your country is an honest hard-working man (or woman) who has had their money STOLEN from them in order to pay for your luxuries.

The patient pays via National Insurance contributions.

[LePaul]

Originally posted by AKH
Emergency treatment: No charge
Out-Patient treatment: No charge
Surgery: No charge
Hospitilisation: No charge
Requirement to satisfy: Citizenship

Yeah, I can see why you'd hate that.

And do you know how many closed Emergency Rooms have had to shut down in the Southern US/Mexico border area?  Because they cant turn anyone away...and the illegals do anything they can to get in and get free healthcare, steal SSNs, etc.  These same theives have the nerve to march and protest, insisting we do nothing about illegal immigration.

[lasersailor184]

You get what you pay for. Now please explain how taxation equates to theft.

It's very simple.  And I know you are going to argue it.


Theft is really simple.  The definition of theft is someone taking something from a person who does not wish to give it.

95% of people in the world do not wish to pay taxes.  Yet just like the robber holding you up in the alley, your government threatens repurcussions if you do not pay taxes.

That is theft.


And just because the government takes from everyone (and not equally from everyone at that) doesn't make it right.  Nor does it make the theft any more of a moral action.

[AKH]

Are you an anarchist?  You certainly sound like one.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Heh the point most of you complainers totally miss is that even the countries with socialized healthcare still have a private sector that you can use at will. Only difference is, you get 50% rebate for using those services from medicare if you choose to do so.

If socialized medicare is so God awful, why do you think Finnish NHL sports superstars who live in Canada/US choose to fly across the atlantic for surgery here? I mean, they have literally millions of dollars of money but still seem to choose the cheap, inferior medicare for their body which is their tool for earning millions.

Weird innit? To me, only conclusion is that either we have a superior quality of surgeons here - or even the NHL millionaires can't really afford to pay for your healthcare system.

[AKH]

Originally posted by LePaul
And do you know how many closed Emergency Rooms have had to shut down in the Southern US/Mexico border area?  Because they cant turn anyone away...and the illegals do anything they can to get in and get free healthcare, steal SSNs, etc.  These same theives have the nerve to march and protest, insisting we do nothing about illegal immigration.

"There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation." - Margaret Thatcher

[Bluedog]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
 But somewhere in your country is an honest hard-working man (or woman) who has had their money STOLEN from them in order to pay for your luxuries.

All those hard working people in your country must be downright pissed about the billions stolen from them to maintain and pay the US military then huh?
After all, that money is gained in exactly the same way, from exactly the same source(tax:citizens), it therefore must be theft too.

Health care/medical aid may be a luxury in the US, but here and in other countries with a 'socialist' health care system, it is a gaurunteed right of every man women and child, each one of whom IS that hard working person who pays for it, or if you prefer, has the funding which allows that system to function stolen from them through tax.

Do you honestly believe it is right to refuse medical aid or care to a human being, care that otherwise would be readily available, just because they dont have enough cash?
Doesnt the Hypocratical Oath taken by all doctors pretty much state the opposite?

[Nashwan]

Nashwan, regarding quality, you get what you pay for

I suspect you too get what you pay for, an awful lot of very rich doctors and very rich lawyers, and a fair few rich advertising executives.

Look at that graph. Then consider that anyone unsatisfied by their treatment in the UK can pay for private care, either through insurance or "out of pocket". And yet very few do (most of the private spending on that graph is for over the counter medicines)

I recently (last Wednesday) had an operation on my sinus's to remove some infected tissue and bone (chronic infection in bone) and my total expenditures too date will be roughly $500.00 for the year, with a $15.00 copay for the Dr visits. The Doc suspected the problem, scheduled surgery, had me get two different CT scans, then after they were developed, I had surgery two days later. Works pretty well in my humble opinion. Oh, and I pay $ 0.00 out of pocket towards my medical benefits (employer covers all), other than my Medicare on my pay check.

The problem with your system is you've paid for it twice. Once for the public system through your taxes, a second time through your medical insurance.

All those things you went through are really expensive. But the real question is not "How much did you pay?" But, "Who paid for your medical treatment?" It seems free to you, and great. But somewhere in your country is an honest hard-working man (or woman) who has had their money STOLEN from them in order to pay for your luxuries.

Somewhere in yours, too. In fact, Americans have more money "stolen" from them to support the American public health system than New Zealanders do for their health system. Look at the graph. New Zealanders spend about $1800 per person per year for their public health system, and another $280 odd a year privately.

The US spends about $2800 per person per year on the PUBLIC health system (ie funded by taxes), and approx another $3300 each personally.

Americans are paying more in tax for their "socialised" health system than almost any other country in the world.