Author Topic: Ding Dong the Hoard is dead....  (Read 4357 times)

Offline Mugzeee

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Ding Dong the Hoard is dead....
« on: September 19, 2006, 02:29:37 PM »
NOT!!!
I been reading several post from a certain sect of people that presume the hoard is gone from AH2. I have flown LW and EW during peak times enough now to get a feel for it. And i have seen the hoard plenty. Albeit the hoard is less players, it is by proportion the same ratio.

   In the EW it's a different feel with things happening at a slower pace. But the numbers still accumulate in one place. These 1v1s yall claim to be so abundant are few and far between when the EW is at or near capacity.

  Just two nights ago the Bish were hoarding at A60 A61 area. Eventually the Rooks responded and we had a good battle. The Bish won out in that battle because of numbers mostly. The only difference in this example is that in today’s EW arena things happen sloooooooowwly.

   Last night in the LW1 arena the Rooks hoarded against the bish in the same ole fashioned way of the old MA. Once again we see that the players flock together.

   This is never going to change, for it is human nature. To think that it will is foolish.


 The following is an interesting reply to an idea Midnight had some time ago.

Quote
Originally posted by hitech
Thanks a lot for the idea midnight. Obviously you have put some thought into it.

But have a few issues.

1 Im becomeing more convinced perks are not the way to balance the arena.

Primarly because it is not fair to new users. And the perk system is realy desiged to limit the choice of each user as to how often they can fly some planes. When you try make it a balancing issue you suddenly have created a big economic system And where it would lead becomes very unpredictible results.

2nd your idea of reseting all to 1000 would create a huge cry from those who have been saveing perks. Next it would remove the goal of the new guy to want to to earn points to try out the 262.


3rd with this "use a local multiplier based on a 4 sector area" you suddenly are complety changing the issue at hand.

Basicly I am not against consentration of forces in the arena. That is a very valid war tactic and infact it is a fundemtal doctren that the attacker must have a numbers adavantage. When all sides are equal each country has the choice of how to allocate there forces i.e. in a group to go on attack/ or spread out/ how ever they wish. I do not see this as an issue.  With a country imbalance 1 country could still dominate 2 different 4/sector areas while the others putting up adefense would have the same limitations as the large country but only in 1 area, and hence you are back to square 1. More numbers in a country would still be an advantage.

The issue is all about country balance not consentration of forces.

And to put it simply, fairly equal numbers between sides makes a better a game and is lot more fun for every one. I realy can not think of one game either board game/sport/computer game any type game where each side is not equal. It apears to me to be a fundimental game concept.


HiTech


   Last night in the LW1 around 10:30 PM, Rooks 36 Bish 18 Knights 12. I have seen the same imbalance in the EW several times already.

   Looking at the evolution of AH2 over its existence, we clearly see an effort to "Balance" sides. First we got the perks. Next it was an ENY limiter. And now we have the current setup. The efforts have worked to some degree but it is far from balanced now, or then for that matter.

   Without actually deciding for the player which country they will fly for, or what area of a given arena you will fly in, you will never be able to balance the sides...ever!

   While many online games implement an auto balance system, (Deciding what team you will be on at login to balance the teams) this certainly wouldn’t work for AH2.

   Seeing that a lot of players feel that switching countries to balance sides at will, would be a good idea.
 
   Why wouldn’t it work?

   Because of the cries that players would have about not being able to fly on the same team or arena as their squad mates or buddies?

   How would this really be so much different that what we are doing now? (Player caps and all)

The current ENY limiter only dictates what we fly and (Contrary to HT’s propaganda Sorry HT,) has done very little to balance sides or game play for that matter. We still saw huge imbalances in the old MA. A given country would roll the other by shear means of numbers regardless of what plane’s they had to choose from. We are already seeing imbalances in the new arena format of 2 to 1.

I still reflect on the Zone system and see it as a viable solution to balance the sides and control the numbers in a given area of the arena. By nature it is much more subtle and just as effective. I believe this system would ( IMO, based on seeing it at work in another game) allow for a much smoother transition towards side balancing as well as game play balancing by.

1. Not rewarding a country with superior numbers by way of letting the majority of them attack in one place could go a long ways to balancing sides. Because in effect you prohibit them from benefiting solely by way of a numbers advantage, thereby making-switching sides seem more appealing.

2. A zone system by nature addresses the hoard in any given area of play from the onset.

edit. I mistakenly stated that we were in LW1 when in fact we were in LW2.
Thanks for the heads up Hondo
« Last Edit: September 19, 2006, 04:14:16 PM by Mugzeee »

Offline lazs2

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Ding Dong the Hoard is dead....
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2006, 02:37:24 PM »
I haven't seen the same thing you have and I have been playing more lately than I have in years.

I never wanted 1v1 fights tho...  I want 1v2 or 2v3 or 5v7 or 5 v5 or whatever...  I want a furball that you have to keep track of more than 1 other plane.    I have found that I ahve about a ten times more likely chance of finding some spot in EW where a good fight is...

Also... there is no real runway diving or "high cap" vultures at the fields... all slum behavior in my opinion...  do that in EW and you are asking to get whacked... no risk free behavior.

I will say that the current map is really bad and should be modified with closer fields or removed.

lazs
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Offline B@tfinkV

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Ding Dong the Hoard is dead....
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2006, 02:47:09 PM »
since the split i have not tried any arenas except early war.

i love this game still, possibly more.
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Offline wrag

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Ding Dong the Hoard is dead....
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2006, 02:47:20 PM »
Fights seem more even and challenging now.

Especially in the EW.
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storch

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Ding Dong the Hoard is dead....
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2006, 02:58:20 PM »
the horde may be down but it's certainly not out.  the long on membership but short on skill squads still do their level best to grief a good fight.  it's true that this is less so in the EWA none the less it does exist.  fortuitously there is a solution.  it's called four members of the rook team who like to fight.  last night a squad boasting 90 members in their roster was stopped cold by four to six rooks who were in a fighting mood.

after watching them drop like mayflies at the end of mating season for a few minutes the area they were attacking was suspiciously quiet.

then it became evident why.  the highly skilled destructors of inanimate objects had switched to attacking undefended nit bases.

Offline B@tfinkV

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Ding Dong the Hoard is dead....
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2006, 03:05:38 PM »
^^^ LOL
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Offline jaxxo

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Ding Dong the Hoard is dead....
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2006, 03:36:10 PM »
well they can now go to an unpopulated area in an unpopulated arena and take bases..hopefully thet will find out it aint fun unless someone trys to stop you

Offline TexMurphy

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Ding Dong the Hoard is dead....
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2006, 03:49:46 PM »
Yes the hoard is still there but there is a huge difference between a 40v40 hoard fight (old MA) and a 10v10 hoard fight (new arenas).

The smaller in numbers the hoard is the more the fight evolves around the skill of the individual pilot.

The higher the numbers the more effective is the "cherry pickin lala". There is just so many planes a person can track in his head. Once that number is exceded the cherry pickers start to rule the game.

The MA hoard fights where about who was the better cherry picker.

Cherry pickin doesnt involve ACMs. In fact it discourages ACMS as all you wana do is shoot and flee.

Now that the hoard is smaller it is much more possible to track all the planes involved and hence one gets more room for ones ACMs.

I dont know maybe its just me that has a very low situation awarness since I cant keep track of all the planes in a old MA hoard furball.

Tex

Offline Guppy35

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Ding Dong the Hoard is dead....
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2006, 03:53:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
the horde may be down but it's certainly not out.  the long on membership but short on skill squads still do their level best to grief a good fight.  it's true that this is less so in the EWA none the less it does exist.  fortuitously there is a solution.  it's called four members of the rook team who like to fight.  last night a squad boasting 90 members in their roster was stopped cold by four to six rooks who were in a fighting mood.

after watching them drop like mayflies at the end of mating season for a few minutes the area they were attacking was suspiciously quiet.

then it became evident why.  the highly skilled destructors of inanimate objects had switched to attacking undefended nit bases.


Ran into the same thing in Mid-war last night.  As soon as a couple of us upped and shot a few down, they never returned. but moved to another undefended base.

They never even attempted to fight us, other then one poor vulch run that the guy almost augered in on.  It was toolshelds at all costs.

I didn't get it, and still don't, but to each his own I guess.

That being said, the fights to be found are better and more equal for the most part both in numbers, aircraft and pilot ability.
Dan/CorkyJr
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Offline hubsonfire

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Ding Dong the Hoard is dead....
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2006, 03:57:33 PM »
No-brainer work-around to the localized system that prevents hording:

The horde simply takes off from various surrounding bases and all arrive, once in the air in their ride of choice, at the single target. We did this as far back as AH1 for missions, well before things like the ENY limiter existed, due to FH down at base X, or ord down at base Y, etc.

Those same folks who engage in those types of missions will always be on the lookout for the path of least resistance, and a localized system aimed at keeping those numbers from organizing, would realistically only force them to take one additional step.
mook
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Offline Mugzeee

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Ding Dong the Hoard is dead....
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2006, 03:58:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TexMurphy
Yes the hoard is still there but there is a huge difference between a 40v40 hoard fight (old MA) and a 10v10 hoard fight (new arenas).

Tex

I guess our definition of an hoard differs. I never considered evenly balanced opposing forces to be a hoard.

Offline SFCHONDO

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Ding Dong the Hoard is dead....
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2006, 04:01:44 PM »
Mugzee, All I have to say is, what LW1 arena where you in last night? Rooks where out numbers 2 to 1 all night by both Bish and Knits. We had a Perk Bonus of over 3 for awhile, Temps only cost 16 and 262 were under 100 perks to fly for awhile. Just confused as to where you think you were, cause it sure wasn't LW1 arena.
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Offline Mugzeee

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Ding Dong the Hoard is dead....
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2006, 04:04:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
No-brainer work-around to the localized system that prevents hording:

The horde simply takes off from various surrounding bases and all arrive, once in the air in their ride of choice, at the single target. We did this as far back as AH1 for missions, well before things like the ENY limiter existed, due to FH down at base X, or ord down at base Y, etc.

Those same folks who engage in those types of missions will always be on the lookout for the path of least resistance, and a localized system aimed at keeping those numbers from organizing, would realistically only force them to take one additional step.
If said collective resources has enough fule to make the trip, then yeah.

   But the idea of a zone system is to cause said players to be short on fuel by the time they make the trip to said congragation. Instead they would opt out of the long flight to fight a local battle. Thats the idea anyhow.

Offline Clifra Jones

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Ding Dong the Hoard is dead....
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2006, 04:06:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
the horde may be down but it's certainly not out.  the long on membership but short on skill squads still do their level best to grief a good fight.  it's true that this is less so in the EWA none the less it does exist.  fortuitously there is a solution.  it's called four members of the rook team who like to fight.  last night a squad boasting 90 members in their roster was stopped cold by four to six rooks who were in a fighting mood.

after watching them drop like mayflies at the end of mating season for a few minutes the area they were attacking was suspiciously quiet.

then it became evident why.  the highly skilled destructors of inanimate objects had switched to attacking undefended nit bases.


But we still had fun after they left right? We could meet in the middle of the 2 fields without flying all that way.

Hoarding is always going to be a part of this game, nothing you can do about it exept take the attitude Storch expresses here. When confonted with a hoard, kill them.

Offline Mugzeee

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Ding Dong the Hoard is dead....
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2006, 04:08:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SFCHONDO
Mugzee, All I have to say is, what LW1 arena where you in last night? Rooks where out numbers 2 to 1 all night by both Bish and Knits. We had a Perk Bonus of over 3 for awhile, Temps only cost 16 and 262 were under 100 perks to fly for awhile. Just confused as to where you think you were, cause it sure wasn't LW1 arena.
 My mistake sir...we were in LW2 as LW1 was to near capacity for all 10 of our guys to get in.
From 9:45 PM till 11:00PM est Rooks had numbers of a 2:1 ratio. Yes i was there. I also noted the Bishop with 18 players were attacking Rooks who had 36 players at that time. I was a fun battle. Meanwhile Knights with 12 players were almost exclusively attacking the Bishop front uncontested.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2006, 04:15:29 PM by Mugzeee »