Ultimate ultimatum

[storch]

Genesis chapter 2:24

"for this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother and be united with his wife, and they will become one flesh".

no woman is good enough for me or my brother.  I chose my wife when that problem reared it's ugly head.  the reason for my choice was because I had sworn an oath, I stood before everyone that was important to me and before God and said she's the one.  we have been married since 1977.  my brother is on his fifth wife.  I don't suspect she'll stick around much longer either.  my brother in law is also a momma's boy, he's on wife number three.  thank you Lord.  I was made with strong character and have always gone my own way.  I feel bad for you.  you grew up in a period where women are smart etc. and men are idiots.  look how we are portrayed in the popular culture.

you are 29.  buck up.  do you know what it means to be a man?  become a man.  

she had boyfriends?  that pisses you off?  why would that bother you if it's "had" as opposed to has?

just saying.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by storch
Genesis chapter 2:24

"for this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother and be united with his wife, and they will become one flesh".
 

This scripture does not imply disowning one's parents, especially within the context of the expanded family unit of the Hebrews of the time. What it states within its context is that your spouse is now your primary relationship, but not your only relationship.

Anyone who would insist that either partner disassociate themselves from their family is utterly self-absorbed and completely clueless as to the resentment such a demand will generate. What you have here is teenybopper level powerplay. I have boots that are older than 22 years. There's a lack of maturity in this lady that she wears like a badge.

Do not give in. Is she offering something in return, some sort of compromise? Probably not, and I doubt she would live up to any agreement. Bad relationships always get around to a place where one of the two makes unreasonable demands... You're there.

Define the rules, then adhere to them. If she is determined to make your life miserable, fine, move on and don't look back. If this woman actually loved you, she would never pull this nonsense.

In all probability, she will never change. Let her be some other sucker's problem. You're young and there's lots of life to be lived. Live it with someone who actually cares about you.

Staying in a relationship such as this one is destructive. I went through that hell more than 20 years ago. One day, it dawned on me that nothing was worth the grief I was getting and simply quit wasting my life. My second marriage is about as good as it gets. My wife puts me first, I put her first. After 15 years, I have a great model for comparison, and the first marriage is viewed as a transitory train wreck, but it made me appreciate what I have now. My ex has been through two more husbands and several engagements. She's still completely self-absorbed and manipulative. She completely deserves to be her....

Move on, my friend. It's not going to get better.

Here's some other scriptures to ponder, from the proverbs of King Solomon:

"It is better to live alone in the corner of an attic than in a great house with a contentious woman." Proverbs 25:24

"It is better to dwell in the wilderness, than with a contentious and angry woman." Proverbs 21:19

My regards,

Widewing

[x0847Marine]

You are a young man in the prime of your life, STAY SINGLE AND ENJOY IT for awhile. Going out and getting laid, or just going out again to mingle where the evil creatures hang out can do wonders... the 'rebound'.

Some girls can give you a serious buzz, once that buzz wears off and stuff goes to poop we're always trying to get back to that "buzz", all the reasons you hooked up with her in the 1st place. Sometimes when the buzz is gone, its gone forever, replaced with contempt.

Heroine addicts call chasing that 1st great high as "chasing the dragon", sometimes you catch that Dragons tail, sometimes the dragon turns around and fries your as5 with it's ugly hot breath. The trick is knowing when to dowse the flames, dust yourself off and start over.

All girls dish out copious amounts of poop, these comes a time to take a good long look at this girl and ask yourself if you want to put up with her crap forever. This time its your mom, who is next? a female boss? old friend?

[storch]

well sir neither of those two biblical references imply divorce.  

every relationship is a power struggle of sorts, some in subtle ways others more overtly.  on some issues you prevail, others you acquiesce.  

not knowing or caring to know the particulars of the problem allows for only a general response anything else is speculation.  there is another way if there is a mutual interest to save the marriage, that would be to seek professional counselling.  

what WW states is correct IMHO, you both need to know that each of you places the other first.  it's just like being friends don't go looking for friends, be a friend.  in time if you're lucky you might have a few true ones.  start with your spouse, be her friend first.  as WW points out it may prove to be in vain but you did give your word and those are words a man is expected to live up to.  even today a man is only as good as his word.

be a man, live up to your word.  if she bails that's another story.  let it be her choice.

[Neubob]

I see your point Storch, and as I mentioned earlier, my 'problems' with her exes are mine, and not insurmountable. I do not let them get in the way of our happiness, I deal with them, and I expect that they will be dulled by time and wisdom.

The ultimatum, however, is not the stuff of a 'wife', it is the stuff of a taskmaster. I have no problems choosing her as mate, and letting my family, slowly but surely, withdraw into the perepherie of my life--as they should by this stage of my life. I DO, however, take issue with her giving me conditions that I can either adhere to, without compromise, or go the other way. She told me that people who love one another suffer for one another. I agreed, adding, that nobody who loves another would ask him to suffer in such a manner, when so many options exist.

Yes, Storch, I stood before a huge crowd and uttered those same words. I did not, however, agree to dishonor and spit upon the second 2 closest people to me in my life. It is not even so much the fact that it's mom and dad. It is the principal, the mindset that can generate a cold, calculating ultimatum with no thoughts as to the consequences, or the magnitude.

In response, I told her I'd do it if she did it to her mom and dad. She threw it back in my face, saying 'why should I? My parents are fine.' Well, maybe they are, and maybe mine are insane. Regardless, they are the only ones I have, and at their age, given the reasonably limited contact I have with them, given what they'd done for me, throwing them to the curb is not something I will do just because I was told to, in a stern manner.

When she smartens up, which may take years, I think she will realize that a man who would comply with such an order is NOT somebody who would go on to be a good mate. By then, it will be far too late.

[Maniac]

Are you letting an 22 yr old spoiled brat dictate your life? you? an 29 yr old man?

You sir are whipped beyond disbelief. She know exactly what shes doing, she knows that she has you twinned around her finger, shes just trying to find out how far she can push you.

Send her packing today, or you will be her ***** forever.

[Rolex]

Oh, I don't think you're the first or last to go through the pangs of jealousy. It is common at your age, but there is hope in knowing that many people do grow past it to discover the peace of having someone who has no questions, or you have no questions or fears about, even for a second.

The trick is to not become a serial jealot until you're eaten alive by the poison of it so it can happen. When you find that person, you become an oasis for each other from all the insanity of the world and get to dole out advice...

[storch]

neubob, the very nature of the relationship guarantees that she will try to excert dominance over you.  the henpecked husband is proverbial and every woman attempts to henpeck her man.  my people have a saying the goes something like once you allow a woman to get on your back you will never get her off.  don't allow her to saddle up.  

this does not mean shout, pout or hit.  it means simply stating with word and deed that I am a man.  I am the man of this  house and I am the head of this family.  

my mom is like any other man's mom, to her I can do no wrong and though I'm 50 and she's 68 she knows what's best for me.  she lives five minutes from my home and I see her a few times every week.  we entertain every weekend especially during the summer. she and dad usually visit on sunday.  she is always welcome here and my wife tolerates her and behaves civilly but there is a seething tension between them that places me in the role of referee.  early in our marriage my mom was openly hostile to my wife.  both are strong willed assertive community minded leader type women.  both are self employed and used to having their way, except with me.  during one argument between them my wife pretty much expressed what yours has, I suppose it's common enough.  I made it perfectly clear to my wife that while my family was now her and later our children that my mother was my mother and she was to be treated with respect and deferrence in my home.  I expect my wife to treat my extended family the same I treat hers, with respect, consideration and love.  my father in law came to be one of my very best friends and his passing last october grieved me deeply, not a day goes by that I don't think of him.  her mom lives about 20 miles away, I see to her needs around the house, I help out with maintenance other stuff as the needs arise.  I took the long way around the barn to explain that my actions in dealing with her extended family set the tone for how I expected mine to treated, in short I lead.  prior to all of this after the big fight was over and on our ride home I told my wife that she would never speak that way to my mother again, that if she did she then decided that she no longer wanted me in her life and that I would take care of my obligations and move on, but that in effect she was leaving me.  We laid down some simple rules and we have abided by them.

we treat each other with respect, we treat our kids with respect and we treat each other's families with respect.  it's worked pretty well but it could have gone either way in the beginning.

[Angus]

That Mom thing is just stupid. If your wife wants you to minimize your bonds with your own mother, then you should try to put up a similar term. I guess she doesn't realize properly what this means to you.
So, either maneouver, or disengage.

[AKH]

Neubob

Your wife is being unreasonable.  That's rarely a good attribute for a partner.

I could understand your wife's demands with more ease if your mother was constantly interfering in your relationship.  But, even then, when you truly love somebody, you don't demand such sacrifices.

See a marriage guidance counsellor.

[Neubob]

Thanks for the wisdom, guys, all of you. Like I said before, it was more for the purposes of affirmation than anything else. As dumb and blind as I am, there is a limit to everything.

Again, thank you.

[cav58d]

Neubob....Jealousy is the worst thing we can manifest up in our minds during a relationship, and I think at one point or another we are all guilty of it...If you two deemed you loved eachother so much that you wed, I would hope to hell that any extrenal physical or mental relationship with another would not be an issue...Will there be guy's that want to have sex with your wife?  Ofcourse there will be...Will it make you mad beyond belief?  You beter your bottom dollar...but 9 out of 10 times you need to just let it slide, and trust in your love, and trust in your marriage...As much as I hate it when im at a bar with my girlfriend, turn around to talk to a friend, and next thing I know some dude is trying to buy my girl a shot, in the end, I know that I am the one who she is coming home with...guys are guys...I am sure we have all (knowingly, or maybe not) had conversation with a female who is involved in a relationship, where we were hoping for more...

How long were you two dating before you married?  I think your wife is asking something of you that is completely unfair...No one should have to abandon their mother for their wife...If you and your mother are very close, how is it psychologically going to screw you up...What happens when your parents grow a little older, and really need you?  Do you really want your kids to grow up without a set of grandparents (notice I said a set, because im sure if you had children they could see your wife's parents all the time right........)
I dont think you can even debate what to do...We are talking about your mother....The woman who has dedicated her entire life to making your world better everyday.....

What is your wifes major problem with your mother?  If I were in your situation, I would ask of my wife to reconcile with my mother, and if that was not possible, then I would end the relationship

[cav58d]

Dont be afraid to end it if you have too...Theres just to many people who stay in relationships because they are scared of having to find someone new, and it is far better to take your chances and end a relationship, rather than take your chances and stay in an already bitter marriage....

and comeone....You are on online fighter pilot....once your single you know how many girls u can get?  lmao

[aztec]

Originally posted by Yeager
There are just too many wonderful women in this world to waste your time on the whackos.

However in my experience the whackos tend to be much more fun in the sack.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Stringer
The cause of your problems is immaturity....by both parties.

Neither one of you are ready for a long-term, significant relationship.

Perfection here.   Couldn't agree more.   My added advice, do NOT reconcile.