Author Topic: Someone help me understand.....  (Read 5116 times)

Offline Widewing

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8801
Someone help me understand.....
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2006, 11:09:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
They didn't.


They won't.... My solution would be that when ENY restriction gets to 10, all ground targets double in hardness (for all countries). At an ENY restriction of 20, hardness doubles again. Limited to flying nearly useless aircraft would be exacerbated by needing 12,000 lbs to kill a hanger or 1,000 lbs to kill one building in a town.

This would not limit capturing bases if the numbers were reasonably even, but it would make base captures all but impossible when the numbers were like I saw them in the MW arena at 8 PM eastern tonight: Bish 31 Knit 4 Rook 22. Certainly, the horde would have to return and rearm, even if they had decent aircraft to begin with.

This might result in some side switching to even out the numbers. If not, let them toil in futility.....

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline FALCONWING

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 943
Someone help me understand.....
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2006, 11:14:19 PM »
gee dan...if you really want to dogfight why dont you come to the da?

thats where i have spent the last few nights becuz........its the only way to get an even fight with simialr planes and similar alt.

the truth i suspect is that you want recognition or score so instead of seeking what you say you want...even fights...you expect it from a dynamic and imbalanced playing field that supports more sides of the game then you "feel" like flying (i.e. base defense...gv'ing...strat)

but instead feel free to point your finger at 10 bops who are having fun flying crappy eny planes and not whining on 200 about it.  yes...to make YOUR experience more fun we will divide into smaller groups and fly 3 to a country and private text each other back and forth (yes im being facetious but can you understand how ludicrous this sounds?) also check back into an arena 30 minutes later and numbers have swung other direction.  with so few players in lw and ew this happens quite a bit.

I dont know what has happened to nit numbers..every arena is severely imbalanced at times...and the eny can be unfair (earlier today inflight numbers Bish 15...Rooks 13.....knits 8      AND Bish ENY was 29...rooks 13....nits 0)
SECRET ANTI-BBS BULLY CLUB

Offline FALCONWING

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 943
Re: Someone help me understand.....
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2006, 11:27:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
and in all seriousness I'm asking this.

What is the fun in rolling up undefended fields and 'winning the reset"?

 


in answer to this question i am honestly answering you:

For me it is boredom....the new/old beta map has fields too far apart...vbases are nice but airfields in certain sections are a long flight apart for slow EW planes.

today was my day off..usually i would play a bunch of AH....logged on this a.m and ew/mw were barren..20ish in each....for nothing better to do i hopped in a gv...noone there to fight...killed one m3...noone ever came back.  sooo since i still couldnt find a spot where there were obvious planes....i rolled a t34 to a town and started killing it....gave me soemthing to do. did it a couple of times then went to LW1..had a pretty good time there defending against cv atacks...only furbalkl situation on the map for bish.

also helped take a22 on beta map...rooks even numbers with bish in EW...flew over there in a hurricane...noone ups...3 bish in t34s roll over to town and kil it....noone ups...finally a flurry of 2 guys reupping again and again after i kill em....we take the town/field.   so my question is "why do none of the "furballers" feel they can up and defend a base?"  awful hard to take anything with small numbers if a few enemy feel like defending.  the ammo load and fuel is so piss poor in non-perk EW planes that noone can hold a cap very long.:noid
SECRET ANTI-BBS BULLY CLUB

Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24760
Someone help me understand.....
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2006, 11:37:31 PM »
I once wondered, long ago, about resets and maps and such. Especially when it's a fun map. A nice map. With friendly sheep ... errr .... women and pretty scenery.

I mean if toolshedders have fun toolsheddin' then they'll toolshed, yeh? And if success = reset ... and success and teamwork = skill/fun ... whatever ... ok.

But .... hey .... maybe rotating the map every single reset isnt neccessary for fun, eh?

Or .... maybe it's be nice to see some really big arse maps where capturing segments of it yields perks but the big arge huge map stays and the world doesn't hafta disappear for ten minutes. (Yeah, I know ... Arlo *you* code it.) :D

Offline Guppy35

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 20386
Someone help me understand.....
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2006, 11:59:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FALCONWING
gee dan...if you really want to dogfight why dont you come to the da?

thats where i have spent the last few nights becuz........its the only way to get an even fight with simialr planes and similar alt.

the truth i suspect is that you want recognition or score so instead of seeking what you say you want...even fights...you expect it from a dynamic and imbalanced playing field that supports more sides of the game then you "feel" like flying (i.e. base defense...gv'ing...strat)

but instead feel free to point your finger at 10 bops who are having fun flying crappy eny planes and not whining on 200 about it.  yes...to make YOUR experience more fun we will divide into smaller groups and fly 3 to a country and private text each other back and forth (yes im being facetious but can you understand how ludicrous this sounds?) also check back into an arena 30 minutes later and numbers have swung other direction.  with so few players in lw and ew this happens quite a bit.

I dont know what has happened to nit numbers..every arena is severely imbalanced at times...and the eny can be unfair (earlier today inflight numbers Bish 15...Rooks 13.....knits 8      AND Bish ENY was 29...rooks 13....nits 0)


Not accusing BoPs of anything.  Had they switched they could have continued to fly together so that was not an issue.  The problem was balance and it happens they could have solved it.  I go to the low numbers team in whatever arena I'm in.  As you point out, you are loyal to your friends so country shouldn't be the issue, game play and having fun should be.

And trust me, I could care less about score, landing etc.  That hasn't mattered to me since my first AW tour 10 years ago now.  You'll generally find me below the mob in my 38G hoping they come down..that's if i can find the mob.  My openly stated goal in midwar when the switch happened was to litter the arena with my 38G parts :)

The question was, how is steamrolling fun.  How was it fun for your 10 guys having no one to fight?
Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters

Offline Mugzeee

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1650
Someone help me understand.....
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2006, 12:26:28 AM »
DAN i hear tap dancing can be quite difficult, causing someone to miss a step. ;)

Offline Engine

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1195
Someone help me understand.....
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2006, 12:41:39 AM »
Hay guyz, I killed the bldgs and we won the war but the enemy keeps shooting me down wat do I do??!?!

storch

  • Guest
Someone help me understand.....
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2006, 12:44:57 AM »
those zany Bops, no matter how many kittens they drown or how much they raise the price of sliced bread everyone still loves them.

Offline FALCONWING

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 943
Someone help me understand.....
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2006, 12:56:15 AM »
hehe storch..we can do no wrong!!!

seriously tho....until HiTech makes Aces High: Furball edition...then complaining about guys playing the rest of the game will continue to seem silly.

also i got to say (as a dedicated "play for team guy")..i could care less nowadays..i was on that map that guppy was on when it got reset...we took the last base and the rooks won the war...oops....3 weeks ago we would have been pissed...instead there was a lot of funny stuff typed on country ch about our idiocy and the terrain changed...i dont think most "toolshedders" really care anymore....i think they are tryiing to have fun and hang with friends..the rest is secondary.

guys

i just dont think the community can fix this...human nature is what keep sbeing left out of the equation...i seem to remember the same guys who say we should all be changing countries never changed countries in the old MA when one country was being ganged.  wouldnt that have fixed the problem with the old MA and solved hordes by like minded indivduals doing the right thing????  but it never happened....why are we blaming each other for not doing what wasnt done for years in a few weeks?

this is noone's fault...lets stop saying that AH is like a game of pick-up basketball..its not...
SECRET ANTI-BBS BULLY CLUB

Offline Stoney74

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1439
Someone help me understand.....
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2006, 01:09:33 AM »
Its somewhat difficult to do an opposed capture of a base with the way people "game" the game.  I've seen people go for the goon or M3's with reckless abandon, exposing their six, allowing people to slam them shortly after dispatching the goon--all in the name of base defense.  Then, after an immediate trip to the tower, they up again, and continue to fight with the town safe from capture.

If you put together the mother of all missions, with 20 fighters, 20 bombers, and 20 goons, all coming in at altitude, then announced your intentions to take a base on 200 in the interest of sparking a great battle, asking for 30 or 40 defenders to up there, the defenders could (in my opinion) go straight for the goons, and the chance to capture would be lost, at least until more goons could be brought in.  I suppose you could take the fighters and bombers, leaving the goons a safe (if there is such a thing) distance away from the fight. If the bomber/fighter team made it through the defense and took out the hangars, killed the rest of the defenders and established air superiority, then it might work.  But, you only have 15 minutes left to reduce the town, not to mention those aircraft and gv's that could up from the adjacent bases.  Now, I'm not saying this is impossible to achieve, but quite difficult given the nature of game.  I would imagine it would be tough to organize such an effort without a very large squad, and the defenders would also have to convince a large portion of their country to saddle up.  

Personally, I agree with you Guppy.  I think it would be great if every capture was a battle first, and then, to the winner goes the prize.  But, in the absence of some of the conditions I listed above, it would be very difficult to put together.  

Attacking a "quiet" base a sector behind the front, on the other hand, is quite achievable with a small number of people and a single goon.  Given that this is much easier to coordinate, it is the norm.  There is a certain level of teamwork that is required to complete the task, and I suppose that's where the enjoyment is.  

I do have one question in all this, and its not a flame.  What is a fair fight in this situation?  Should the attackers and defenders be equal?  Should the attackers announce ingress direction and altitude?  Should everything break down into 1v1's X 40? Would the goons be considered off-limits until after a failed attempt?  There's certainly the aspect of tactical advantage and quasi-realism that is in play here.  Even in FSO, there is a certain amount of uncertainty involved even though the scenario tries to put both sides in geographic proximity at certain points in the battle.  I've certainly been on both sides of a fight in there--heavily outnumber sometimes and other times with a heavy numerical advantage.  I remember one night on FSO where our squad was flying P-51's and set to defend a base.  A group of 262's rushed out and jumped us.  We were able to stay alive by avoiding them, but eventually the main force arrived and soon we were beset with about a dozen 109's and another dozen 190's as the Ju-88's slipped through beneath us.  We got crushed.  It wasn't even a fair fight...but it was extremely smart.

I'm not sure I've answered the question--possibly even provoked more tangents.  But, different people play the game for different reasons.  I just try to find situations to play the way I want within all the other types of play going on.

Offline Cooley

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 891
Someone help me understand.....
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2006, 01:19:54 AM »
Maybe we should watch the rosters and if we see one country with overwhelming #'s and we notice a squad of 6 , 10, 20? on that side
we should come here an call em out for not switchin to even it up :rolleyes:

If a base was taken that was undefended, it was cause no one tried to save it, IMO you cant blame the attackers

Tips for Protecting "Undefended "bases
* Watch Map, look for possible NOE attacks (no dar bar, base flashin)
* One Player can screw up a capture,,,,get out low and fast, kill goon


Peace
« Last Edit: September 28, 2006, 02:14:19 AM by Cooley »
Cooleyof 367th

Offline Guppy35

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 20386
Someone help me understand.....
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2006, 01:26:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by FALCONWING
hehe storch..we can do no wrong!!!

seriously tho....until HiTech makes Aces High: Furball edition...then complaining about guys playing the rest of the game will continue to seem silly.

also i got to say (as a dedicated "play for team guy")..i could care less nowadays..i was on that map that guppy was on when it got reset...we took the last base and the rooks won the war...oops....3 weeks ago we would have been pissed...instead there was a lot of funny stuff typed on country ch about our idiocy and the terrain changed...i dont think most "toolshedders" really care anymore....i think they are tryiing to have fun and hang with friends..the rest is secondary.

guys

i just dont think the community can fix this...human nature is what keep sbeing left out of the equation...i seem to remember the same guys who say we should all be changing countries never changed countries in the old MA when one country was being ganged.  wouldnt that have fixed the problem with the old MA and solved hordes by like minded indivduals doing the right thing????  but it never happened....why are we blaming each other for not doing what wasnt done for years in a few weeks?

this is noone's fault...lets stop saying that AH is like a game of pick-up basketball..its not...


So what you are saying is you've reached the point where really all you want from the game is a flying Chatroom? :)

If you can recognize what's going on in the game, and I can see it, why can't anyone else?

You are right, people will follow the crowd.  But that's where the CO of a crowd can make a difference, in how he 'leads' his people.

To say 'that's just the way it is", to me seems like abdicating any responsibilty to the "AH community" that gets brought up so much.

It still comes down, in my mind anyway, to how we, who are the community, make this thing work better.

I threw out my suggestion in another thread.  And the goal is not to seperate the 'toolshedders' from the "furballers" but to integrate them.

I'm certainly not accusing you of being the problem.  But I would suggest, considering the size of your squad(s) that you can play a large part in finding solutions if possible.
Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters

Offline jtdragon

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 262
unbalance sides
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2006, 07:53:10 AM »
Has anyone though that the problem with the unbalance side could be that a side has some players on it that no one wants to fly with and another most people get along really well.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2006, 07:57:19 AM by jtdragon »
JT

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
Someone help me understand.....
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2006, 08:05:41 AM »
Seems like in the old days every aspect of the game was put there to encourage fighting between airplanes. That was the goal. Resets had no real meaning; in the early days, there wasn't even map change.

As we progressed this changed. It did not necessarily change because HTC changed it; we as players had the most effect. After the continual addition of many, many features somehow it was no longer about fighting per se.

Instead the reset became the goal. Perk points became a goal.

We need to somehow get back to fighting as a goal. The steamrolling of undefended fields to "win" a reset and earn perk points really isn't much to hang your hat on as a game goal. If it continues unabated, it will not be healthy for AH.

I think HTC has seen that and thus the new setup. We also need to change as players, however. HTC can't do it alone. We have to change our views too.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Knite

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 805
Someone help me understand.....
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2006, 08:23:17 AM »
Hey Guppy,

I think the desire is a few things combined, including Stoney's explanation.

One of the reasons I believe is that to some people, the goal of this game is to win the war. Period. That is the enjoyment, victory and "beating the level" so to speak. In a war, you do not attack where your opponent is strongest, but attack where it is weakest. You leave it up to the opponent to decide as to whether or not to react. Being this game is more of a bunch of individuals as opposed to a true team aspect, that opponent often does not react. What you're seeing IMO isn't a thought of "let's make sure we find empty fields", it's "Let's see where our team can make the most damage". The unfortunate part is with AH's limited Radar, and the community typically acting like individuals or small packets of wingmen as opposed to the team, there is no defending force available at those fields, and therefore it is an undefended field. (The fact that you cannot tell where the enemy is until it's almost too late just adds to the issue).

I know when the squad I'm in was more active, we'd often aim for fields that were not in the "battle" but one field away from it. We didn't do it because we wanted undefended fields. We did it because we wanted to A) help our team win the map, B) draw fire away from our teammates at another base, and C) hope the opponent WOULD up and defend the field to begin a nice base battle.

Just my thoughts.
*shrug*. lol
Knite

39th FS "Cobra In The Clouds"

I'm basically here to lower the 39th's score :P