If you ran a stop sign

[Chairboy]

A humorous aside to an otherwise grim thread:

I know someone who was in the middle of nowhere.  There was an intersection that had a convenience store on the other side, the road was clear with no traffic, and he decided "to heck with it" and ran the red light.  Immediately as he ran the light, a police car was in the process of coming out from behind the other side of the store and he knew he was busted.  As fast as he could, he pulled off the road and coasted to a stop.  He popped the hood, jumped out of the car, and started looking at the engine.  Casually, he popped the throttle return spring off and continued inspecting the engine while the police car pulled up.  

"Whew, that was scary!" he told the officer as he walked up.

"What's that?"

"I tried to stop back there, but the car just powered on through the intersection.  Man, I sure am glad there wasn't any traffic!"

As the skeptical officer watched, this guy suddenly "noticed" the throttle return spring and re-attached it in front of the office.

"Holy cow, that must have just popped right off.  Yikes!"

The officer gave him the eyebrow, but ended up letting him go with an admonishment to watch those signals.  My friend was pretty convinced that the officer knew exactly what happened and had decided to reward his creativity.  As far as I know, he's straightened up and flown right since.  Sometimes a glimpse of purgatory is more effective then being thrown into the brimstone.

[Toecutter]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK


In NJ unless an officer is responding to a call they subject to and are expected by law to follow the exact same rules of the road as anyone else.

He Ran a stop sign.
Because he ran a stop sign two people died.

I dont see what other contributing factors are needed

   OK my last post on this, maybe this one will have some "merit."  First even if a police officer is responding to a call they are subject to the rules of the road.  Which means even if going to a priority call, ex. lights and sirens on, they have to stop at controlled intersections to make sure the way is clear before proceding.  Right now all we know is that he failed to stop at a stop sign.  If there are no other circumstances other than that he may be charged with failure to stop at a stop sign.

    Mavericks post is pretty much right on the mark with the way the investigation would precede, and why no summonses were issued at the scene.  However,  if the only offense committed is failure to stop at a stop sign,  then he will be charged with that offense.  If it turns out the there are other contributing factors such as excessive speed or DWI or perhaps something else, then the charge will be elevated to a criminal charge.

      Everyone who is posting here and calling for blood seems to have the opinion that this officer willfully failed to stop at the stop sign.  There are not enough facts about the case yet to determine that.  There could many reasons why he failed to stop.  If it was willful or due to other egregious factors then, yes charge him.  

       My whole problem with this thread began with people calling for blood before knowing the facts of the case.  Calls for vehicular manslaugter, hydrashocks the back of the head.  Hey, Lukster failed to stop at a stop sign once, should we have him charged with attempted vehicular homicide?

       There seems to be a whole segment of society that is ready to condemn a person just because he or she is a police officer.  That seems to be what is happening here.  As I said before,  I don't think we would be having this discussion if this were not a police officer.  

        Either way,  justice may not be done in this case anyway because of the amount of people in this state who are like minded to some of the posters here, and will react before being presented with all the facts.

[Masherbrum]

Two people are DEAD, Two Innocent civilians went to the Hospital.   Vehicular Homicide aside, The State of New Jersey is gonna lose a ton of money over this.

If you THINK "failure to obey a traffic sign" is the ONLY charge this guy's gonna get, you're couldn't be more wrong.

[Maverick]

Masherburn,

Just for the sake of arguement, since there is no real information available to anyone yet, what would you charge him with if it turned out the brakes had just catastrophically failed on his car?

[lasersailor184]

Then it's out of his control.  He didn't have the ability to stop his car.


But if that's not the case, I'd charge him with Murder, first degree, 2 counts, with intent for execution.  But that's just me.

[Pooh21]

Originally posted by Maverick
Masherburn,

Just for the sake of arguement, since there is no real information available to anyone yet, what would you charge him with if it turned out the brakes had just catastrophically failed on his car?

That has about the same probability of him then and there deciding to attempt to enter paradise with 2 carloads of civilians.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Maverick
Masherburn,

Just for the sake of arguement, since there is no real information available to anyone yet, what would you charge him with if it turned out the brakes had just catastrophically failed on his car?

Why weren't his LIGHTS or SIRENS on?   By LAW, this must accompany a speeding officer to SIGNAL to the traffic.   To NOT do so, is Negligence.   There is no such thing as "I forgot, I didn't have time, etc."  

This has more bearing on the possible prevention of this then ANYTHING else.

[Maverick]

Wow Laser, you really are reaching. "Saying" the word intent does not make the situation true no matter how much you wish it to be so. That's one of the things about a criminal investigation like Murder in the first degree. Having intent, or willfull evil mind to do the dastardly deed. That is one of the things you must prove in first degree murder. There is a much more "lenient" level of proof required for vehicular manslaughter or even 2nd degree murder in some states. Highly more probable choices for charges in this case.


Masherburn, lights and siren are emergency devices to be used in performance of his duties. Now lets go back a minute and re-read the bit I posted that you are aluding to here. Here' I'll quote it for you.

"Just for the sake of arguement, since there is no real information available to anyone yet, what would you charge him with if it turned out the brakes had just catastrophically failed on his car?"

Please note the circumstance I said: "the brakes had just catastrophically failed". This obviously takes it out of the realm of intent wouldn't you say? Had the siren and lights been activated would the sound and lights magically stop his car? Would they have magically stopped the other car? Would the other driver have had any warning at all? Is the intersection out in the open, over the crest of a hillside for the other car? There is no information to indicate that any "opticon" light signal equipment was either on the vehicle, at the intersection or functional. Besides, it does NOT respond instantly. There was also no indication in the article that the Officer was speeding in excess of the posted limit.

I bring all this up for one reason only. I am NOT excusing his actions. I am also not going to condem him until the facts are known. Not supposition based on an article which is grossly incomplete with the facts of the situation nor what ifs or what you "think" happened when you were not there and haven't even seen the scene much less done ANY investigation.

In short there is virtually NO information here as to what exactly happened to cause the collision. Merely posting allegations just to justify your unhappiness does not make them accurate. Wait until the investigation is done. Then if you don't like it you can respond with your own special version of reality.

This wasn't TV with a prepared script in controlled circumstances bound to a writers own perspective and completed in one hour of TV time. This was real life and to do things right in an investigation takes some time.

[x0847Marine]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK

I dont see what other contributing factors are needed

Well experience tells me there's much much more to a collision than a simple "he ran a stop sign".

Imagine you rear end someone at a relatively slow speed, tossing their unrestrained infant off the seat killing him... charge you with murder or manslaughter because it was your fault? pay no mind to the fact the kid was riding illegally?...and the driver shares responsibility?

[Guppy35]

My son missed a stop sign and it cost him and his sister their lives.  I don't believe for a second he meant to miss it.  It was dusk, the intersection has had numerous accidents in the past.  They died and my family has to somehow live with it.

That being said, i take great offense at the 'bullet in the back of the head' comments.

I sometimes wonder how the woman who was driving the Jeep Cherokee that T-boned my son's car, lives with that, even knowing it was my son who missed the stop sign.

I know what my life has been like since my kids died.  I can imagine there is no greater punishment for that cop then having to live with the knowledge of what his missed stop sign caused.  That will be a far greater punishment then anything the law can hand out.

BTW I have the accident reports and they are very detailed and very difficult to read considering it details the last seconds of my son and daughter's lives.  The state patrol in Minnesota is responsible for doing all of them and they were/are very thorough.

[Dago]

Cops have always been some of the most dangerous and arrogant drivers on the road.  Not all of course, but too many.   For some reasons they think the law really wasnt written to be applied to them, only others.

I remember years ago, when I worked night shift, a state trooper used to pass me up every night as I drove up the highway to work.  I would be doing 70, he would fly by me doing at least 85.   Night after night.   One night, a coworker decided to jump on his tail and follow him at that speed.  The trooper then backed of, got behind my friend, pulled him over and asked for his license to issue a ticket.   My friend then asked for his badge number, said he would be talking with the head of the state patrol over his driving.   The cop got pissed, but handed back his license, told him to slow down and walked away.

In MN a few years ago, a Minneapolis cop was responding to a call at night, driving through a neighborhood at high speed with NO lights and NO siren.  He ran through a stop sign and broadsided a pickup with two young men in it.  He drove the pickup well up into a nearby yard on the corner, where the two young men died.

The cop wasnt charge with any crime.  I thought he should have gotten life in prison.

In the case sighted in this thread, the cop should get life in prison.

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by Dago
Cops have always been some of the most dangerous and arrogant drivers on the road.

Politicians?

[Dago]

Originally posted by Sixpence
Politicians?

I didnt say they were the only dangerous drivers.

[BlueJ1]

I keep hearing excessive speed being used as a reason for not stoping at a stop sign...anyone else find something funky with that statement?

[straffo]

Originally posted by Maverick
Masherburn,

Just for the sake of arguement, since there is no real information available to anyone yet, what would you charge him with if it turned out the brakes had just catastrophically failed on his car?

Failure to use hand brake ?