Author Topic: If you ran a stop sign  (Read 1591 times)

Offline DREDIOCK

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If you ran a stop sign
« on: October 02, 2006, 08:54:47 PM »
Lets say you or I while driving,ran stop sign
And hit a vehicle crossing broadside with enough force to partially eject two people out of the driver side window killing them.

What would happen to you?
Would you be arrested? Charged with anything?
Now keep in mind you RAN through the stop sign and that part is without question
If its just you or me or any old Joe hell yes. Arrested on the spot

Apparently not if your an NJ State trooper.

Latest news I've heard is he wasnt on an emercancy call. and he did run the stop sign. and was NOT on an emergancy call

Now I have all the respect for law enforcement people in the world. I sure as hell wouldnt want to do their job.
But I do see all to often Cops, who think the rules of the road do not apply to them. Driving at high speeds and running lights only to see them pull into the station when their shift is over or to stop as a coffee shop.

Im sure the idea is. Well who is going to give him a ticket?

But by the same token. If they screw up and the outcome is death.
As it seems to be in this case. Sorry but this guy has to get booked,proccessed and charged just like the rest of us.
Ad insult to injury. The guy got to return to work the next day.



Two Teen Sisters killed in Crash with trooper

To make this story even sadder. The two girls were the only children of the parents.
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline lasersailor184

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If you ran a stop sign
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2006, 10:00:08 PM »
Bullet to the back of the cop's head...







Then charge the wife $0.23 for the cost of the hydrashock to the taxpayer.
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Offline lukster

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If you ran a stop sign
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2006, 10:18:58 PM »
Accidents happen, sad but true. Anyone here never accidentally ran a stop sign? The degree of negligence should determine the punishment.

Offline lasersailor184

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If you ran a stop sign
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2006, 10:40:37 PM »
Yes.  He should be accidentally shot in the head.


To eject 2 people from a car is no accident.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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If you ran a stop sign
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2006, 11:09:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lukster
Accidents happen, sad but true. Anyone here never accidentally ran a stop sign? The degree of negligence should determine the punishment.


Sure I have. and if a Cop caught me I'd be read the third degree and be ticketed.
And if because I ran the stop sign two people were killed I'd be arrested booked, charged proccessed and convicted.

So far this guy hasnt even gotten a ticket
Death is no easy answer
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Offline Toecutter

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If you ran a stop sign
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2006, 11:59:08 PM »
Just to clear this up.  If in NJ,  you drive through a stop sign without stopping and hit another car and kill the people in it you can be charged with failure to stop at a stop sign.  Unless of course there are other contributing factors which caused you to fail to stop at the stop sign.  Such as DWI, or excessive speed.  If the only offense committed was the failure to stop,  then thats the only offense that the driver can be charged with.  People very rarely get arrested and charged with a crime when the only original offense is a motor vehicle violation, police officer or not.  We don't know the complete circumstances of the incident with the NJ trooper,  but I'm sure the hydrashock to the back of the head might be a little much.  

    I'm not sure we would be discussing this as much if it were someone other than a police officer involved.  I think each and everyone of us has made a mistake or broken the law when it comes to driving. Unless it turns out the the trooper was doing something so horrible as to warrant our contempt, lets leave the capital punishment for the people who actually commit crimes.  Perhaps a prayer for the girls family is in order as well.

     Dred, what crime to you think the trooper should be charged with?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2006, 12:05:53 AM by Toecutter »

Offline Masherbrum

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If you ran a stop sign
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2006, 12:04:14 AM »
I had a funny incidient back in 1993.   It was around 10pm, and I saw this car weaving in and out of traffic.   The closer it got, you could tell he was tailgating like something fierce, and cutting people off.   He rode my a** for 4 miles, because he was boxed in by myself and the car in the slow lane (not deliberately, traffic was just not forgiving).   I flipped this car off for about 2 of the miles (at times, I could NOT see headlights).   He cut off the car in the slow lane (he in fact, grazed and hit this car, I heard it).   He pulled up to the side of my car I saw it was a Wayne County Sheriff.   He flipped his lights on NOW, and motioned me to pull over (I had not broken a civil infraction).  

As I pulled into a driveway of a business, the car that was HIT, pulled in as well.   The Sheriff got agitated and told the other guy to "get the hell out of here and it didn't involve him".   He had the gull to ask me "Do you know why I have pulled you over?"   I said:  "We'll let's see I watched a car cut NO LESS Than 10 cars off, you rode every cars a** in front of you with blatant disregard.   IMO, you have broken more than 8 moving violation codes.   Furthermore, you hit this guys car and I heard it.   The way I see it, if this is either one of us (pointing to the pissed off guy) we're not only losing our license, we're looking at LEAST jail time.   You didn't EVEN have your light bar OR siren on, while breaking all of the said violations in the pitch black of darkness."

He continued to be a d**k and I mentioned my neighbor (at the time a Captain at a local PD) and that I would be talking both him and a lawyer.   This d**k had the balls to write me a ticket for flipping him off!   The other guy and myself exchanged phone numbers because he was pissed off and wanted Wayne County to repair the damage (fender and bumper pad slightly dented and scratched).  

I get home and go right next door and have about a 20 minute discussion with my neighbor.   He could not believe this guy wrote this ticket.   He said he knew a couple of WCS's and would get more dirt on this guy, because something was not right.   He even asked me "Are you telling the truth, this is mindboggling."   I gave him the other number and told him "Go ahead right now, call this guy.  I'll wait here, and watch the reaction."    He hung up the phone and had a look of fear on his face.  "This guy is a badge?!", he exclaimed.  

I called the other driver and informed him of my court date.   He showed up on the said date, and my case is called in front of the magistrate.   The magistrate even does a double take "Cited for flipping off an Officer of the Law".    He asks the a**hole "what happened?"  The Sheriff is telling lie after lie to protect his cushy job.  

I finally had enough after 3 minutes of drivel and called the other guy up.   I spent about 2 minutes setting up what ACTUALLY transpired.  The magistrate then asks who the gentleman who this person is standing up with me, and I told him "this is the guy who's vehicle was hit".    The magistrate called me up to the bench "You are off the hook, in fact, hand me your copy of the ticket."   He called the Sheriff back to his quarters and cancelled an hours worth of cases (you should have heard some pissed off people!).  

About a week went by and I talked to my neighbor and told him what had happened.   He said "He was fired and lost his license for 4 years over this.  He will also NEVER carry a badge again."  


Now, with this tool.   He should be charged with Vehicular Manslaughter.   The only thing seperating a Cop from a Civilian is the "ability to arrest for a misdemeanor."
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Offline loser

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If you ran a stop sign
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2006, 12:04:28 AM »
Would I be arrested? No

Charged? No

If no other factors were present, I would be given a ticket for "failure to obey a traffic signal." Maybe....maybe..... "Driving without due care and attention."

Offline Masherbrum

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If you ran a stop sign
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2006, 12:08:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toecutter
Just to clear this up.  If in NJ,  you drive through a stop sign without stopping and hit another car and kill the people in it you can be charged with failure to stop at a stop sign.  Unless of course there are other contributing factors which caused you to fail to stop at the stop sign.  Such as DWI, or excessive speed.  If the only offense committed was the failure to stop,  then thats the only offense that the driver can be charged with.  People very rarely get arrested and charged with a crime when the only original offense is a motor vehicle violation, police officer or not.  We don't know the complete circumstances of the incident with the NJ trooper,  but I'm sure the hydrashock to the back of the head might be a little much.  

    I'm not sure we would be discussing this as much if it were someone other than a police officer involved.  I think each and everyone of us has made a mistake or broken the law when it comes to driving. Unless it turns out the the trooper was doing something so horrible as to warrant our contempt, lets leave the capital punishment for the people who actually commit crimes.  Perhaps a prayer for the girls family is in order as well.

Dred, what crime to you think the trooper should be charged with?


Another issue is damn well on the front burner with this:  HE CAUSED TWO PASSENGERS TO BE EJECTED!!!!!!!   He was "speeding, reckless driving, unable to stop in a safe assured distance, and failure to obey a traffic sign."    

VEHICULAR MANSLAUGHTER to answer your question.
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Offline boxboy28

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If you ran a stop sign
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2006, 12:35:03 AM »
I agree with Mash.   Cop was in his own mind above the law....excessively speeding and with blatant disregaurd for the law(he knows those roads) killed 2 young women........................ ... fry his bellybutton in uniform and those who helped him keep his job!
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Offline FiLtH

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If you ran a stop sign
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2006, 12:43:40 AM »
If he was'nt reponding to a call with lights on, and he ran a stopsign, he should be charged with 2 counts of manslaughter.

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Offline Toecutter

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If you ran a stop sign
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2006, 12:46:37 AM »
Masherbrum,  you are apparently taking your very bad experience with one law enforcement officer and projecting onto this situation.  As stated we don't know the full facts yet.  Correct two people were ejected.  You would like to charge the officer with speeding,  reckless driving,  unable to stop in a safe assured distance, and failure to obey a traffic sign.  And vehicular manslaughter.   I'm guessing the you deduced the appropriate charges from the facts that two people had been ejected from the car,  I'm guessing that because you typed it in all in caps before you listed the charges.  I would like to address these one at a time if I may.

   1.  Speeding.  The article didn't mention anything about excessive speed.  Apparently you believe that because the girls were ejected that the officer must have been speeding.  What if the speed limit on the road was 50 MPH?  Fast enough to cause an ejection.  (just for your info passengers can be ejected at any speed)

  2.  Reckless driving.  In NJ to convict on this charge there must be wonton disregard of life or property.    

3.  Unable to stop in a safe assured distance.  We have no such statute. Careless driving would be as close as we would get.  

4. Failure to obey traffic sign.  So far from what we know this is the charge that the officer will be charged with.  

5.  Vehicular manslaugter.  Right now this charge doesn't fit.  

  The problem with your thinking is that its contagious.  A police officer does something wrong, and right away you would like to string him up without having the facts of the case.  All we know for sure is that the officer failed to stop at a stop sign.  But before you have all the facts you and some others here are calling for his head.  Now I'm sure that here in NJ there are going to be some people of influence with the same knee jerk reaction that you have.  Maybe they had a poor excuse for a cop treat them badly as well.  Guess what happens next.  Justice goes out the window.  This officer gets tried and convicted in the court of public opinion.  Maybe the person conducting the investigation bows to pressure and does not what is legally correct, but what some of the reactionaries think is just.  

    Now let me say for the record that if this guy was doing something that would elevate the the motor vehicle charge to a criminal charge (and excessive speed could do that, but it would have to be extremely excessive), then yes.  Lets have a trial and get justice for the girls family.  However, if his only violation is infact failure to stopat a stop sign, then thats what he may be charged with.  And may our prayers be with the family of the girls who died.  Unfortunately in this state, we have an over abundance of people who think like you do, so if I had to guess, my guess would be that charges will be forthcoming.

Offline Debonair

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If you ran a stop sign
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2006, 12:46:48 AM »
i dont run stop signs & i'm offended:mad: :mad: :furious :mad:that you're suggesting i do

Offline Masherbrum

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If you ran a stop sign
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2006, 12:53:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toecutter
Masherbrum,  you are apparently taking your very bad experience with one law enforcement officer and projecting onto this situation.  As stated we don't know the full facts yet.  Correct two people were ejected.  You would like to charge the officer with speeding,  reckless driving,  unable to stop in a safe assured distance, and failure to obey a traffic sign.  And vehicular manslaughter.   I'm guessing the you deduced the appropriate charges from the facts that two people had been ejected from the car,  I'm guessing that because you typed it in all in caps before you listed the charges.  I would like to address these one at a time if I may.

   1.  Speeding.  The article didn't mention anything about excessive speed.  Apparently you believe that because the girls were ejected that the officer must have been speeding.  What if the speed limit on the road was 50 MPH?  Fast enough to cause an ejection.  (just for your info passengers can be ejected at any speed)

  2.  Reckless driving.  In NJ to convict on this charge there must be wonton disregard of life or property.    

3.  Unable to stop in a safe assured distance.  We have no such statute. Careless driving would be as close as we would get.  

4. Failure to obey traffic sign.  So far from what we know this is the charge that the officer will be charged with.  

5.  Vehicular manslaugter.  Right now this charge doesn't fit.  

  The problem with your thinking is that its contagious.  A police officer does something wrong, and right away you would like to string him up without having the facts of the case.  All we know for sure is that the officer failed to stop at a stop sign.  But before you have all the facts you and some others here are calling for his head.  Now I'm sure that here in NJ there are going to be some people of influence with the same knee jerk reaction that you have.  Maybe they had a poor excuse for a cop treat them badly as well.  Guess what happens next.  Justice goes out the window.  This officer gets tried and convicted in the court of public opinion.  Maybe the person conducting the investigation bows to pressure and does not what is legally correct, but what some of the reactionaries think is just.  

    Now let me say for the record that if this guy was doing something that would elevate the the motor vehicle charge to a criminal charge (and excessive speed could do that, but it would have to be extremely excessive), then yes.  Lets have a trial and get justice for the girls family.  However, if his only violation is infact failure to stopat a stop sign, then thats what he may be charged with.  And may our prayers be with the family of the girls who died.  Unfortunately in this state, we have an over abundance of people who think like you do, so if I had to guess, my guess would be that charges will be forthcoming.


I am NOT using my past case in this.   The two aren't similar.  It just reminded me of that story is all, bizarre, etc.  

If you think they were BOTH ejected out of the Driver's side WINDOW at 25mph, yer off of your rocker.    He hit that minivan to bruise his torso, with a BR vest on.   I've been to the Ford Crash Barrier Building while a 25 T-bone was simulated, and 1 year later a 55mph T-bone was simulated.   25 mph was a walk in the park.   The 55?   It would suck, even if belted in.    I have also seen my share of accidents from a "ride along" standpoint with my former neighbor, and just being a motorist.  

I'm sorry, I'm not buying it.   Again, HE should get what WE WOULD, 2 counts of Vehicular Manslaughter.    This isn't a "roll through a stop sign", this is BLOWING the sign completely.
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Offline Toecutter

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If you ran a stop sign
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2006, 12:55:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum


I'm sorry, I'm not buying it.   Again, HE should get what WE WOULD, 2 counts of Vehicular Manslaughter.    This isn't a "roll through a stop sign", this is BLOWING the sign completely.


   And if we failed to stop at a stop sign and there were no other factors involved such as DWI or excessive speed, then we would get a summons for failure to stop at a stop sign.  I am in no way saying he should get special treatment.  He should be treated as the rest of us.  I can assure you that the have been many fatal accidents in this state where the only offense commited and charged was failure to stop at a stop sign.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2006, 01:00:14 AM by Toecutter »