Author Topic: Cherry Picking (Read 4786 times)

Mugzeee · « **Reply #105 on:** October 06, 2006, 11:18:45 AM »

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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
'cherry picking' is just an all too easy excuse for being shot down by your own foolishness. there are furballing cherries, tactical cherries and of course there are score potato cherries, but at the end of the day the idea is to shoot people down and you got shot down.

And thats the facts Jack!

SkyRock · « **Reply #106 on:** October 06, 2006, 12:47:40 PM »

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Originally posted by Mugzeee
And thats the facts Jack!

LMAO!

lazs2 · « **Reply #107 on:** October 06, 2006, 02:26:38 PM »

stegor... you are doing very well in your second language... I hope to be as skilled in my second some day.

As I understand and as your stats show... you fly the 190 and 205 both are planes with fast roll rates and high speed and climb and.... big guns.

Now... to fly them within their limits would mean that for the most part...you would not engage slower more agile planes... although some are quite capable of dogfighting these planes... I found the 205 quite agil in the AvA arena for instance.

now.. lets look at the arenas... in the old MA, you had all sorts of planes to choose from.. you must admit that only choosing very fast planes with big guns every time and flying in a timid manner and... only killing lesser planes that could not be a threat... well... that is pretty lame.

If the whole arena were simply 190's and 205's that would be different of course...

the real whining was the late war aficianados who wanted to get the early war planes back into the late war arena... they won't fly em but... they want em for targets and they don't want people to call em on it.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

gatt · « **Reply #108 on:** October 07, 2006, 04:33:25 AM »

Well Lazs,
I usually fly the 205 like Nibbio-Stegor does. In the old MA our preys were not necessarily early war or slow aircraft. Often the opposite. Flying relatively "fast and big guns" aircraft like the A-5 and the 205 doesnt mean only B&Zing or cherrypicking. As far as gun punch is concerned the 205 is nothing compared to the always present Spitfires, Typhoons, Nikis and so on. And as far as speed is concerned, nothing against Ponies, Typhoons, late Spitfires, Jugs and evrything we usually find between 10K and 15K, our usual patrol altitude that is.
I agree with those who dont like runners-cherrypickers but the right way to use the 205 is doing properly Hit&Climb attacks, not mixing with Spitfires, Ki84s, Nikis and UFO-looping P-38s and P-47s. If you (generally speaking) are cought with the pants down by a fast flying 205, which then disengage spiral climbing, its your fault. I dont give my prey two chances. Again: this is not a medioeval duel. The DA is there for that.

lazs2 · « **Reply #109 on:** October 07, 2006, 09:09:57 AM »

gatt.. I understand but.. the plane choice dictates the style. I simply don't like that style and... I tend to stretch the limit of the plane type.

Take the AvA for instance... there you can furball in a 205 or La5 because... they match up planes. It is not the MA. In the old MA and new LW... you are facing lesser or better planes depending...

depending on what you choose in the hanger... that is it.. the extent of it.

Because there are so many years and types of planes.. you are forced more to fly timidly if you choose a late war cannon plane. unlike a set where all speed and agility is about equal..

Your style in the late war planes is dictated by your choice of them. To say that you have no choice is not really completely correct. You choose to fly a plane with those capabilities (I say you but mean in general).

I think that you would have to admit that the fights would be much different and... the "ranks" if everyone flew planes that were more equaly matched.

I think that you will admit that, while not all.... most who choose late war fast planes do so for the large advantage it gives them over a large percentage of the players and... having that initial mindset... tend to be more timid and gamey than they should be.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

Sketch · « **Reply #110 on:** October 07, 2006, 09:48:30 AM »

There's two types of Cherry Pickers so to speak.
1) The ones fly around the edge of the furbal and get the stragglers, the guys trying to run or grab som alt and not paying attention, I'm hitting the deck and running guy..... Those are the fun ones and yes you can look back and say "Man I should have checked my 6"
2) The guy that climbs to 20k into a 5k fight, waits for two guys to start a nice fight away from everyone else in the bloody map... dives down when they are busy and picks the guy and then climbs back up to his perch to hide. Those are the dweebs and the BnZ guys with very little skill.

Give Karaya his Spit and let him at that guy down on even fighting terms... Karaya is gonna be picking BnZ remains from his teeth.

I am fine if I die from the guy in #1.... but if you have to resort to being the #2 guy... well,

gatt · « **Reply #111 on:** October 07, 2006, 10:31:14 AM »

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Originally posted by lazs2
gatt.. I understand but.. the plane choice dictates the style. I simply don't like that style and... I tend to stretch the limit of the plane type.

Take the AvA for instance... there you can furball in a 205 or La5 because... they match up planes. It is not the MA. In the old MA and new LW... you are facing lesser or better planes depending...

depending on what you choose in the hanger... that is it.. the extent of it.

Because there are so many years and types of planes.. you are forced more to fly timidly if you choose a late war cannon plane. unlike a set where all speed and agility is about equal..

Your style in the late war planes is dictated by your choice of them. To say that you have no choice is not really completely correct. You choose to fly a plane with those capabilities (I say you but mean in general).

I think that you would have to admit that the fights would be much different and... the "ranks" if everyone flew planes that were more equaly matched.

I think that you will admit that, while not all.... most who choose late war fast planes do so for the large advantage it gives them over a large percentage of the players and... having that initial mindset... tend to be more timid and gamey than they should be.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

Hmmm, yes and not. IMO, no matter what a/c I am in, gaining and mantaining a speed/alt/SA advantage is a must. I can furball with a 109K-4 but I have to be at least 50mph faster than the fastest of the turn&burners around me.
A furball with similar aircraft and with E and SA equally distributed among the furballers is the less interesting situation I can imagine.

SlapShot · « **Reply #112 on:** October 07, 2006, 02:23:22 PM »

A furball with similar aircraft and with E and SA equally distributed among the furballers is the less interesting situation I can imagine.

WOW ... thats when my pants start on fire and the adrenalin rush is at it's highest ... at this point it's all about you and the other guy(s) ... the plane is secondary.

Chalenge · « **Reply #113 on:** October 08, 2006, 12:47:35 AM »

Some of you guys sound like your trashing the P51 and anyone that flies it. By several definitions Ive read in this thread I suppose I might be considered a cherry picker. I dont wait for guys to get busy so I can jump them and shoot them down. I dont have that much problem finding kills without resorting to that. I prefer to think of myself as something like a shark feeding on lower food chain items. I even ask before coming into a fight just to make sure I wont be taking someones trophy but rather helping out with a difficult situation. I like finding six-ten cons to attack and no I dont always have an alt advantage. I do refuse to let a spit or La7 kill me when I can but he better be ready for the reverse. When I hear of a good stick over a field I go there. When I hear of a cv attacking I go there. I like flying under the 3k ack umbrella near cvs and killing spits and a6ms.

Before you can be picked you have to be a cherry and sometimes the experience of shooting guys is like reaching into the sink and finding the dishrag that hasnt been cleaned for a week. Not a cherry. These same guys often PM after a death. Im not part of their world.

I dont think cherry picking exists really. Its just another form of excuse for stupidity.

gatt · « **Reply #114 on:** October 08, 2006, 03:46:15 AM »

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Originally posted by SlapShot
A furball with similar aircraft and with E and SA equally distributed among the furballers is the less interesting situation I can imagine.

WOW ... thats when my pants start on fire and the adrenalin rush is at it's highest ... at this point it's all about you and the other guy(s) ... the plane is secondary.

Arent some areas of the EW, the DA and fighter town enuff for that kind of fighting? That kind of fighting seems to me too much game-ish (IMO, flight sims should someway attempt to recreate history) and makes the SA a much less important and interesting skill to sharpen. A good mix of the two styles of playing seems to me the best way. HTC should be (and I do hope it actually is) aware that there are both types of gamers around, not only the much more vocal furball crowd.

SD67 · « **Reply #115 on:** October 08, 2006, 07:12:11 AM »

*ahem* *tap tap tap*
Hello I'm SD67 and I'm a cherry.
Yes, I may spend a little too much time in early war planes like the Hurri1 in MWA, my SA leave much to be desired and I fight a constant battle against the urge to HO.
My ACM leaves a little to be desired and my accuracy sucks, I've lost count of how many times I've emptied a full loadout of .303's while turning and diving and climbing only to end up getting picked off while trying to force the dude I'm chasing to auger out of pilot error.
Having said that I'll waste no time in singling out and going after the straggler falling in behind his squaddies/ mission/ horde I hope that you all can find it in your hearts to forgive me. I also sleep well secure in the knowlege that 90% of enemy pilots would do me the same courtesy.
I'm so glad I found this little therapy session, I feel so much better now.

lazs2 · « **Reply #116 on:** October 08, 2006, 09:16:54 AM »

gatt... I don't think it is interesting unless my plane has a disadvantage. Seems everyone allways starts out above me. That's why I like furballs... the bee and zeee guys have to stay on me to kill me and they are too timid for that.

A peee 51 can be flown with acm... we have all seen it. the late war arena started out as well.... late war. I would like to fight in a late war plane but only if the other guys were all flying em.

I would grab a temest from time to time and simply chase down the more timid runway divers... it really wasn't much fun.. all they did was run till I caught em and then die much more easily than the newest furballer..

I have fought 51's who could use some acm and push the plane to it's limits of handling. If you are saying that late war planes are not capable of acm so bee and zee and energy fights are all you can do then you are wrong.

lazs
Public relations Officer for the BK's

SlapShot · « **Reply #117 on:** October 08, 2006, 09:21:47 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by gatt
Arent some areas of the EW, the DA and fighter town enuff for that kind of fighting? That kind of fighting seems to me too much game-ish (IMO, flight sims should someway attempt to recreate history) and makes the SA a much less important and interesting skill to sharpen. A good mix of the two styles of playing seems to me the best way. HTC should be (and I do hope it actually is) aware that there are both types of gamers around, not only the much more vocal furball crowd.

The key word in your post is IMO ... that is your opinion and you are welcome to it.

I never said that what I like to do is the ONLY thing to do ... I just stated what sets my pants on fire ... if you think that is game-ish ... oh well ... sorry about that.

The thing is ... I have done it all ... strat-capture ... E-Fighting ... BnZ fighting ... and now I enjoy the "frenzy" fighting. I love it when it's all down to me and my ability to work the angles and the situation to get the advantage.

The "vocal furball crowd" has somewhat turned the noise level down since the change ... EW and MW for the most part gives the furballer what they need.

gatt · « **Reply #118 on:** October 08, 2006, 10:11:54 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
gatt... If you are saying that late war planes are not capable of acm so bee and zee and energy fights are all you can do then you are wrong.

lazs
Public relations Officer for the BK's

Lazs,
IMO if an early 1943 fighter like the 205 mix with a 1940-41's one, inevitably the former has to exploit his advantages to gain and mantain the advantage. Be faster, stay higher ... you name it. Even a 109F should exploit and mantain his slight speed and climb advantages against a Spitfire MkV.
Obviously, you can try every situation you like, i.e. you can close dogfight in a Pony against a Spit V. Thats what simulations are for, as well. However, it seems to me more a "what if" or an extreme training than an historical recreation of air combat.

Slapshot,
ok.

P.S.: I hope I wrote something understandable in english.

lazs2 · « **Reply #119 on:** October 08, 2006, 10:35:38 AM »

sorry gatt... I never knew this was a recreation of history... I have read a lot of history and have never heard of the kind of flying you are talking about...

No la7 against la7 or spit 16... no wildcat against pee 51 or spit...

No lone "energy fighters" bee and zeeing..... I read about finger fours and 20 k fights and such aginst planes that were from different countries and... maybe a couple hundred kills recorded in maybe 6 years by only a tiny fraction of the best pilots and the rest maybe a kill or two in the same time..

I don't want to simulate that. I want the guns and the flight models as accurate as possible and I want to see what these babies will do when pushed to their limit... e fighting and bee and zee... may be "smart" fighting but it is a waste of a good fm... it is never seeing what the thing will do. It is not using all the fm that has been so painstakingly given us.

and for many.... it is simply a very transparent excuse for timidity in what amounts to..... a cartoon plane and a cartoon "life"

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's