Author Topic: lousy fights..  (Read 9805 times)

Offline thndregg

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lousy fights..
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2006, 08:39:38 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2

Your stats are an open book...


My statistics do not matter if I don't care about them......and I don't.
That is a very narrow way of looking at how people have FUN in AH. True, numbers do not lie in that they state what you like to fly/drive, how you perform in them, how you/your squad ranks compared to others, but I see those numbers, especially those that show a lot of diversity in what they like to do, as stating some players don't get stuck exclusively in a single mode of play. Nothing more, nothing less. So what if they aren't great at it? They enjoy it nonetheless or they wouldn't log on---because it is FUN.

So, keep cracking open the score page, and  berate everyone with thier stats. That method of forming an opinion only reflects on you and how others see you, but then it doesn't matter to you if you don't care.
You may continue.
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Offline E25280

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lousy fights..
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2006, 11:07:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
slimm... yep.. that is the way I see it.   Closer fields would also help for the early war I would think.

ltarget... I am simply pointing out that the guys like yourself and donzo and a lot of the other mega sqaud whorders who defend their actions and are so upset when they get their covers pulled really don't know what a good fight is....

Your stats are allmost a duplicate of donzos with even less success when meeting an opponent even when you have an overwhelming advantage which you and he have allways claimed is good gameplay...

Your stats are an open book... I didn't compile em...you sighned on to have people look at em when you threw in your credit card...   You aren't really fooling anyone in any case...  the stats just confirm..

So kids... look at the stats of the guys who claim mega squads and whordes and late war planes and 5-10 on one fighting is fun and that it builds skill and see that they...

ain't gettin any better and... are no more fun to play with now than they ever were.,,

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
You can mischaracterize all you want, Lazs.  You're not fooling anyone either.  Show you can do something besides pick a good turner and go around in circles and we'll talk.
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Offline indy007

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« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2006, 11:41:53 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by E25280
You can mischaracterize all you want, Lazs.  You're not fooling anyone either.  Show you can do something besides pick a good turner and go around in circles and we'll talk.


Compared to the other options in EAW, F4F (lazs choice ride) is not exactly a leader amongst turn rates. Hurri2c, SpitV, A6m, 109e are all superior. P40s, C202, 109f, 38g are all worse. Only one that's a  very, very close mathup is the SpitIX. It's middle of the pack at best, so he's not exactly picking ezmode.

Offline doc1kelley

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« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2006, 12:19:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by indy007
Compared to the other options in EAW, F4F (lazs choice ride) is not exactly a leader amongst turn rates. Hurri2c, SpitV, A6m, 109e are all superior. P40s, C202, 109f, 38g are all worse. Only one that's a  very, very close mathup is the SpitIX. It's middle of the pack at best, so he's not exactly picking ezmode.


But then again you are defending one of the guys  whose squad  went and padded their scores earlier vultching each other in P-40's.  What he thinks the game is and what he thinks it should be really doesn't matter to me.  He keeps harping about the mega squad and even has HT calling us an "Airforce".  Hell we get together and fly as a squad once a frigging week and all the other time we just do our own thing.  Somebody find another reason to blame the game on it's lack of luster besides us for a change.

All the Best
Jay
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Offline FBplmmr

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« Reply #34 on: October 09, 2006, 12:28:04 PM »
ironically -- this thread is turning into one heck of a donnybrooke!! :cool:

Offline SlapShot

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« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2006, 12:38:58 PM »
But then again you are defending one of the guys whose squad went and padded their scores earlier vultching each other in P-40's.

You really need to get the story straight ...
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Offline E25280

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« Reply #36 on: October 09, 2006, 12:41:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by indy007
Compared to the other options in EAW, F4F (lazs choice ride) is not exactly a leader amongst turn rates. Hurri2c, SpitV, A6m, 109e are all superior. P40s, C202, 109f, 38g are all worse. Only one that's a  very, very close mathup is the SpitIX. It's middle of the pack at best, so he's not exactly picking ezmode.
Point taken, but I didn't say "best" turner.  The F4-F is the closest thing in the Early War to the FM-2, his preferred (if not exclusive) ride before the arena split.  So it still demonstrates one-demensional thinking and an unwillingness if not inability to move outside his own comfort zone.
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Offline doc1kelley

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« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2006, 01:01:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
But then again you are defending one of the guys whose squad went and padded their scores earlier vultching each other in P-40's.

You really need to get the story straight ...


Oh but I remember the mega troll that it was.  I'm sorry SlapShot as I believe you weren't involved in it but again it's a case of the squad reputation and how it does or does not reflect on the individual.  If the story isn't straight then enlighten us?  I just think Laz has a creditability problem in his postings.  You. however are a different story as I've previously agreed with some positions you have posted and haven't seen the mega distortions from other of your squad.

All the Best...
Jay
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Offline Stang

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« Reply #38 on: October 09, 2006, 01:26:41 PM »
They used gv's against Lev's P-40 B, which even though he landed 202 kills, counted NOTHING toward his score, at all.  Didn't get one kill for his fighter stats, but it did cause some whines.

:t

Now, there you have it straight.

Offline DaPup

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« Reply #39 on: October 09, 2006, 01:27:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
Your stats are allmost a duplicate of donzos  


And they are both strikingly similar to some guys in another squad I know of :lol

Offline indy007

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« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2006, 01:59:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by doc1kelley
But then again you are defending one of the guys  whose squad  went and padded their scores earlier vultching each other in P-40's.  What he thinks the game is and what he thinks it should be really doesn't matter to me.  He keeps harping about the mega squad and even has HT calling us an "Airforce".  Hell we get together and fly as a squad once a frigging week and all the other time we just do our own thing.  Somebody find another reason to blame the game on it's lack of luster besides us for a change.

All the Best
Jay
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I'll defend whomever I choose :) I can promise you one thing, merge with a BK, and you know you're gonna have some fun. I've been exactly where you were before though... so let me explain alittle bit in a fashion that's not antagonistic (BKs usually very funny, but not so good at that).

I've experienced all the different kinds of fun in this game. I've scorepotatod and been in the top 20 several times. I've done Rook Joint Ops. I've porked FHs from 22k with a fight going on. I cherry picked 31 people in 2 hotpads in a P47D40, and even Hitech's F4U & Pellik's 38). I've bombed toolsheds in Ju87s with moabs, hotpadded it several times, just to raise my score. I've snuck around the edges of furballs in an la-7, and shot down 5 people that never saw me coming just for the "WTG" from squaddies. I've rejoiced when a "vulch queen" would keep upping more & more low eny fighters for me to perk farm. I've captured more than my fair share of bases. I've used my laptop and a friends account to hunt down people that HO'd me. I was absolutely loyal to my little Rook symbol, and Bish & Knit dweebery was the source of all the game's ills. Ultimately, it was all a crutch that did not make me a better, or even respectable player, even though my scores and results had never been higher.

Then, like a lightswitch being turned on, everything changed. On a whim, I left my squad, changed countries, and after a few days being on the minority side, some guys from the 80th FS were nice enough to bring me onto their vox and teach me how to dogfight in P-38 (thanks guys!). After that, I started always joining the country with the lowest #'s. I read alot about ACM and took a nice pounding in the TA in the process. Back in the MA, I upped into the vulch, relentlessly, and figured out it's easy to shoot people as they overshoot the vulch (which I find very rewarding). I gave up on landing almost altogether since it just takes too long, so I just bail & re-up so I can go back to fighting (even with kills). Eventually, the numbers became so ridiculous it wasn't worth playing. It's just not worth upping when 10+ guys came hurtling in at you with a 400mph advantage. Now, there's no question that I could up from a different base, get plenty of alt, and cherry pick the vulchers to my hearts content... but that takes time. That same time could be better spent fighting on more equal footing and improving the pure ACM skills that let you survive 1 vs 2, 3, 4, 5 without needing that monstrous E advantage to overcome the numbers.

Ultimately, it's like craftsmanship. Yes, a factory (your "airforce") can produce a much higher volume of goods (kills, dead toolsheds, etc). However, the quality of craftsmanship falls off horrendously compared to the lone artist... ever been spanked by Fester, Urchin? I have. It was fantastic and I still remember every turn of every fight.

Then, we were blessed with the EWA, and it most definately floats my boat. Sure, people still HO, people still cherry pick, but to me it feels like there's been a 90% reduction in its occurances. Fights are lower, slower, and alot more intense. There is little to no margin for error when you're not 100mph faster than they are.

Now, I die 10x more. I replane like it's going out of style. I stalk squaddies on VOX when they have the temerity to come into the EWA and not change sides. I haven't dropped a hangar intentionally in months... but, I'm better than I ever have been before, and I'll gladly turn with anybody, anytime (provided I have guns & gas left to make it a decent fight). Win or lose, doesn't matter. At the worst, I'll get alittle respect for not HO'ing, and having the stones to fight it out as best I can. If you can make the experts work hard, you're on the right track. It gets even worse, because now, in my mind, even when somebody is 600m behind me, in my head, they're still about to die, they just don't see it coming. I'm still trying to kill them when my tail is off and I'm fluttering a few hundred feet to the ground.

Mass numbers squads will always be a crutch for people and reduce their potential skill, and what's worse, all previous and some current game mechanics encourage this behavior. I was lucky enough to realise this and get away from it. The more help you have, the less likely you are to actually work at solving the complex geometric puzzle that is air to air combat, and you'll miss out on many great aspects of the game. It's not just about "well we only have 1 squad night a week!"... it's about the entire mentality that comes with it. It's doing a disservice to yourself and the community by intentionally neglecting important skill sets and staying welded to those crutches.

just my 2 pennies. trying to make AH2 a more dangerous place to fly :)

Offline doc1kelley

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« Reply #41 on: October 09, 2006, 02:19:09 PM »
Thanks for your post Indy.  I appreciate your attitude but mine is a little different as I come here to relax and I really don't want to make this game a job.  Some want the ACM and some just wanna let off some steam.  I work long hours and don't want to spend a lot of time on maneuvers and flight tactics.  It's not just a I'm better than you thing for me.  I respect your devotion to your way of play.  It just doesn't fit into my work schedule.  You guys do need some targets to fill our creel and I'm just one of them.  I fly to interract with my teamates and friends and I really don't care if I get killed or not.  Does this really mean that my type of play is wrong?  What I am seeing now is a war brewing between  the "Purist" and the "Hobbiest" and nothing more.  Personally I don't care about score, rank, or anything else but to come here and have some time to escape the pressures of my job, my life, my family, and just whatever else bugs me.  Is that so wrong?  I do it with my online friends and I have fun and that is all that I care about.  We have such a mega-squad that I went to EW and MW (my favorite arena) today after working a 12 hour shift and I was the only one of my "mega-squad" on so it isn't like we dominate an arena.  Would I care?  Not in the least as I only wanna have some fun and I don't look for them to be a crutch for me.  I'm an old fart in my 50's and I just don't care about devoting my life to the science of ACM and SA to have some fun.  

All the Best...
Jay
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Offline E25280

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« Reply #42 on: October 09, 2006, 02:27:36 PM »
Indy, great post.  But it pre-supposes that everyone is out for the same thing -- to get better and become the best cartoon pilot there is.  

That's my only real point in all this.  I play to have fun.  Whether I "get better" is irrelevant to me.

Somehow, though, the fact I have fun doing something besides dedicating myself to "constant improvement" is the "wrong way to play" to some.

I don't make fun of those who play differently, because there is no "right way" to play.  I recongnize that fact.  I just wish others did too.
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Offline indy007

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« Reply #43 on: October 09, 2006, 02:29:36 PM »
Ultimately there is no right or wrong way to play, just preferences.

There's simply ways to play that make you better in air to air, or worse.

I work for myself & do 60+ hour weeks. I get maybe an hour in the evenings to play if I'm lucky, maybe 2 or 3 on the weekends. The conversations I have are usually with the people I'm fighting against (sometimes in the middle of the fight). I've found getting into fights as fast as possible and killing & being killed gives me the fun I'm looking for. Just couldn't find it in the old MA (edit: except in Fighter Town). Wasn't conducive at all to my preferred style of play. Luckily the 71 Squadron invited me onto their vox this weekend. They play with the same mentality I do, and I hope I'll get to fly with & against them regularly from now on. They're a tough fight. Prior to that I had to stalk BKs around the arena to keep tabs on the good fights.

Also, If you login to EWA and see all the carriers on 1 side driving at top speed directly at the nearest enemy base... probably was my doing in the faint hope I can squeeze in a sortie every 3 or 4 minutes to get my fix before I explode in a dazzling globe of g/f+chores ack or some dweeb pops the CV (or FHs) in an effort to save some piece of digital landscape.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #44 on: October 09, 2006, 02:37:02 PM »
I think that the guys crying foul about being outed are like politicians who claim they believe in one thing and vote another... your stats are your vote.  

For people who say they don't care....... they sure seem to care...

The only times I fight squaddies it is mean and bitter and cutthroat... they are cruel and insensitve to me....  They lower my K/D dramaticaly...  you try fighting furball one on one if you don't get it.

I started the thread explaining what a lousy fight was....  the timid mega squad guys had to chime in...  I think it is more than fair to use their stats to show that in a thread like this....

The fact that they are part of the problem and not the solution is relevant...  I think that outing them is good  for new guys reading this board...  I think also that the new guys should read indy.

Indy get's it and... like a lot of guys he gets it cause he earned it.   The stuff he did is the stuff most veteran furballers did years ago including myself.   I know I can pick a fast plane and be untouchable.... and bored.

I have taken up tempests and every manner of plane in the AvA...  they can all dogfight.... it just embarasses me to take the best plane in any arena.... takes away from the joy of winning to me.   I also tend to be lower.... A lot lower... than the guys I kill.   Plenty of people here have flown with me and against me cause....

I am willing to change sides to even up the fight.... something else that the guys crying in this thread don't know anything about... they are the ones that don't know anything about the community as they have shut out 2/3 of it.

I think it is helpful for new guys to see that there are more ways than timid whode to play and that losing a cartoon plane is no big deal.... My handle stated out in dos AW as lazurus because.... well.... we come back from the dead here...  different games over the years have forced the shortening of the name but the idea is still the same..

You new guys.....   You get to come back....  jump in the fight and kill or die... learn from it.   film it and watch the films to see what you did wrong or....

go with the whorde guys and know that you won't get better.... that everytime you meet a red plane.... no matter what advantage you start with.... you have a better than even chance that if you can't run away... you will die.  

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's